All-Star Teaching with Ciarán Kilkenny

When we think of Ciarán Kilkenny, most people picture the Dublin GAA star on the football pitch. But away from the roar of the crowd at Croke Park, Kilkenny's true passion unfolds in a classroom at St. Benedict's primary school in Ongar, where he's shaping young minds with the same dedication he brings to elite sport.

This conversation reveals the deeply thoughtful educator behind the sporting headlines. Kilkenny shares how his own primary school teachers became powerful role models who sparked his love for the Irish language, history and learning. 

At the heart of Kilkenny's teaching philosophy is the concept of classroom as community. "It's a family," he explains, creating an environment where children learn to support each other, resolve conflicts, and develop as both learners and people. 

What's particularly fascinating is how Kilkenny's sporting background enriches his teaching. The self-discipline, reflection, and growth mindset cultivated through elite sport transfer powerfully to education. "You're constantly reflecting on how you can improve," he notes – an approach he models for his pupils. His commitment to identifying and nurturing each child's unique talents stems from his appreciation for how his own teachers supported his sporting development. His balanced perspective as both a celebrated athlete and committed teacher provides a unique window into how different professional worlds can inform and enhance each other.

Join us for this revealing conversation that will change how you think about the relationship between sport, teaching, and creating nurturing environments where young people can discover their full potential. 

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Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre produced by Zita Robinson.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:07

Fáilte stach. And welcome to Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, alton MacMahonagh. And welcome to Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, ultham MacMahon. This podcast is brought to you by Dublin West Education Support Centre. We're located on the grounds of TUD Tala, serving and supporting the school communities of West Dublin and beyond. Welcome to Season 4 of Teachers Themselves. This season we're bringing you conversations with educators who are doing very interesting things in the Irish education system. We've really enjoyed chatting with them about their varied contributions to classroom and schools around Ireland and we hope you'll find them as inspiring as we did For me.

Speaker 2 0:57

I was lucky in school that I had teachers to support me with a talent that I had to play sports. So for me it's about supporting children in my class. Each child is special, unique, different in their own way, so just really support them, highlight that and then encourage them on their pathway to whatever their talent is.

Ciarán's Educational Background and Influences

Speaker 1 1:14

Okay, so you're very welcome again to Teachers Themselves. This week I'm joined by Ciarán Kilkenny, who's a teacher in Ranga Catter out in Ongar, dublin 15. A lot of our listeners will know Ciarán as a footballer, but first and foremost and the thrust of this conversation is Ciarán the teacher. So, ciarán, thank you forte fóir út an seo a tí Tí Tíos Themselves podcast Iain tí go bheith an seo.

Speaker 2 1:49

Thanks for having me here today, looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 1:52

You're from Castlenock out there in Dublin 15. How did your experience grow up, form you as a teacher?

Speaker 2 1:59

You know who are the people you met, or the things you did, or the community that you felt made you the teacher you are today my backstory is I went to one school on well at school, oliver in comine, and I was very fortunate we did, we did great skill there and I did a couple of teachers that were very influential to me as a child when I was growing up, and one was, uh, kerry mancora, russnacon, and he heavily, you know, influenced me when Russell Macon, and he heavily, you know, influenced me when I was younger, I suppose, and he would have been very passionate about the Irish language, irish history, and he would have been my coach then with Gaelic football and we were very fortunate we got to play in a few coming-of-month school finals and you know he was massively influential to me in primary school. And then we did another. I had another teacher, anton O'Cleric from Wexford, and he would have taught me as well and these two guys would have been massive role models to me. I suppose, and you know these are people that you look up to as children and they can really shape you how you are as a person. And those two men heavily influenced, influenced me when I was in primary school and then I moved on to school, katrina in class seven.

Speaker 2 3:06

And again, I suppose when you're young as a child and as you're a teenager, you're still like a sponge, trying to learn as much as possible and trying to find your way. But when you have really good people out there that are there to support you and steer you in the right direction, you can only be grateful and thankful for them. I had loads in secondary school then as well. Only be but grateful and thankful for them. I had loads in secondary school then as well. I had Barry O'Reilly, Gráinne O'Reilly her husband, paddy O'Reilly played football for Dublin Eoghan MacGyarl, dermot O'Hogan All these guys again, they're all looking to steer you in the right direction. And then, I suppose, when I finished school then I went to Australia to play Australian Real Football, came home and took a year out and then I went back and I did a degree in history in Irish and then I did the masters in the professional masters in primary school education and how.

Speaker 2 3:51

Then I got into teaching. I actually worked in commercial sales for a year, going into school selling payment solutions and telephony, and but then again I took a break after that and I was actually out in my green just outside my house one day and I had a sand wedge and I was chipping a sand wedge on my green and next thing I saw this man with a Galway Anorak walking over towards me. He was walking over towards me, he had his dog. His dog's name was Dougal because he's a big fan of Father Ted. But he came over to me and I thought to talk football, but now he actually heard that I was a teacher and he said would you like to do a bit of solving up on my principal up in St Benedict's Anger? So yeah, I've been there for the last five, six years now and Parag Fles, my principal, approached me that day and I'm very thankful because it's a lovely school that we have and lovely people and, yeah, I love my job.

Core Values in the Classroom

Speaker 1 4:39

So very for meeting him that day so a chance meeting with pouring out in the greenway or chipping out a ball, that's like awesome, that's a gas and come here, okay. So you tried a few different things there when you were a younger man and you eventually settled on teaching. What was it about teaching that you said, yeah, that's for me, because I know from talking to people that you're a very committed teacher and it's not a case of and I know it probably drives me mad, I'm sure it drives you mad when you hear of lads and they say, oh well, you know, he's doing it for you know, july and August or whatever, that's not the case with you, ciarán. What is it that motivates you? Why do you say, yeah, I want to be a teacher, I want to work as a teacher?

Speaker 2 5:21

Yeah, for me, I think that if you can influence a couple of people in a really good way, sure isn't, isn't that incredible? Like you know, I'm very much the believer is that monkey see, monkey do, and that everything that you do, the children are constantly watching you, and if you can give them a couple of good habits for them that will last them in their life, isn't that great. Like for me, one thing that I try and instill in my pupils is that they're grateful that they say please and thank you, that they're polite and mannerly, that they're respectful towards each other, respectful towards their parents, their teachers, and just try and support them and being the best people that they can be, but also to reach their potential then as well. And for me, I was lucky in school that you know I teach us to support me with a talent that I had to play sports. So for me it's about supporting children in my class.

Speaker 2 6:09

Each child is special, unique, different in their own way, so just really support them, highlight that and then encourage them to on their pathway to whatever their talent is. And I'm just on the top of my head, and we had a school assembly there the other day and we had a child and it was Valentine's Day and he sang a couple of Elvis Presley songs and he was unbelievable, like he just he interacted with the crowd, he'd everyone engaged and what a special talent he has. And you know, for me it's, you know, important for me to let him know how proud I am, the class are, and to continue to follow his dreams and his talents. So for me, if you can still put core values into the children, support them, really encourage them with their talents and trying to get them to make good decisions, I suppose if you can do that alone, I think that's a great thing to do. So, yeah, that's my philosophy, I suppose yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 7:03

That's it helps them be the best version of themselves, and I suppose, as the years go by too, and you help kids like that, you're also helping the family, because they're going back into they don't. They don't exist in a bubble, and that's a big lift for the whole family. Um, and it really does transfer across, which is a fantastic privilege, I suppose, for teaching. Spoke there when you're talking about core values, ciarán, and I remember a leader of your own, jim Gavin, used to talk always when you were under 21 about core values as a big thing for him. What are your core values? So, as a teacher yourself, as a man going into teaching school every day, what core values do you bring into St Benedict's in Unger?

Speaker 2 7:43

It's for a couple of things and I'm just going to try out a couple of buzzwords.

Speaker 1 7:50

I'm having trouble with this.

Speaker 2 7:55

What way I look at it, I suppose, is for me. I try and be punctual, so that's probably that I'm able to get in, and so I suppose, hard working and committed, so I'd probably look to get in, because I play sport outside of what I teach and we tend to have training and stuff like that after school and stuff like that. So what I generally do is that I'm hard working, committed, so we'd start school at nine o'clock. I try and get in at eight o'clock so I can do my hour, body of work the hour before I go into school. So, generally speaking, I get in at eight, I go get my coffee at half seven, I get into school for eight, I get all my work done and then I kind of have, you know that, 15, 20 minutes then before the children come in, that I can just, you know, relax and feel calm before the storm comes.

Teaching Philosophy and Favorite Subjects

Speaker 2 8:38

But, um, I think that's very important, I think I think I'm quite ethical. I would try to do the best that I can for each child and be there to support them. If something's on my mind that I'm nearly second guessing, you have to do it. It's all about doing the right thing you can for the kids. Do the best that you can for the kids. And then just gratitude, if they're trying their best, just saying thank you guys, I appreciate all you can do For me. Best just saying thank you guys, I appreciate all you can do for me. Someone said to me when I was younger all you can do is your best. I'm like, don't be worried, all you can do is your best. And if you do your best, then you know that's all you can do. So gratitude, respect and hard work and committed and just be the best that I can be for them and for me. It's about building a strong relationship or a strong rapport with each child in the class, and with that you know they'll feel like they're supported and they'll do the best that they can for you and they'll appreciate the effort that you make with them then as well. And you know, one thing I'm always encouraging them to do then is to be kind and just to be kind to each other and support each other.

Speaker 2 9:39

For me, a classroom is like a family, it's like a community, and I try and explain to them at the start of the year you're going to be with these other boys and girls in your class for eight years like so. It's a family look out for each other, include each other, support each other. Look, we're going to fall out, but you know, the great thing is that we can say sorry, we can forgive each other and we'll be stronger first. And so just trying to teach them all these things and how to be good friends and that's how I would look at it, I suppose, and for me, it's all about creating a happy classroom, a happy environment that they can, you know, learn, but also for me, it's how they can have fun then as well.

Speaker 2 10:15

For me, you could teach a lesson one day. You have a great plan about the lesson, but if it turns into a really healthy discussion and I might sometimes it might deviate into something completely different healthy discussion and I might sometimes it might deviate into something completely different. But if they're getting great learning out of it and it's a fruitful conversation, I think it's a very important to have. For example, one day recently they were talking about um.

Speaker 2 10:32

I was just asking them about the elections and what's going on and I just went off and thought it was important to teach them about, you know, being a councillor, then being a TD, then being a minister and you know all these different things. There's so much. And then another day I went off teaching them about budgeting and I suppose for them then to understand the importance, when we're going up to Christmas, about their parents making big efforts leading into Christmas and telling them about all the bills that they have to pay and, I suppose, actually educating them on how much their parents do to support them and just to be very grateful and thankful to them towards Christmas time because they're putting in such a hard effort to make everyone's time so special.

Speaker 1 11:06

Absolutely. Yeah, you've given us a great brushstroke across, I suppose, what's happening in a primary school, and one of the advantages of primary school teaching is you have a like our post-primary colleagues are tied to two or three subjects, but we have a vast array there to do. What's your favourite subject to teach, Keira?

Speaker 2 11:28

I have a few. I actually enjoy teaching all subjects. I think there's great learning.

Speaker 1 11:34

You're not in an interview now.

Speaker 2 11:36

Yeah, but for me I would say the top subjects would be Irish, physical education, history and religion then as well, they'd be probably my top four. And SPHE I'd actually throw into the mix there and art, like see, there's so much we there, and like see there's so much, like I mean we're so fortunate because there's so much going on in each lessons. But generally speaking, it'll be Irish history, religion and physical education. Irish because it's our national language and I think that if you can teach it in a fun, interactive way that the children will learn Irish and themselves. But they'll also have a positive attitude towards Irish Physical education because you're exposing the children to so many different strands and so many different activities and they get to see each other in a different environment, have fun, smile, be competitive, but also show respect History, to learn about different places, different countries, different scenarios and learn from them. I think it's amazing and when you can get into a bit of project work, they're really encouraged and really motivated to do well, especially if you incentivise them.

Speaker 2 12:44

And then the last one, then religion. I think religion is a very important one for me and just really helps with their morals and it's someone to, I suppose, teach them to hold them to account and someone that they can talk to and, you know, always someone looking down on them to support them but also then to hold them accountable to. So for them, if they've done something wrong, then you know, morally they'll know they've done something wrong and you know, I think there's great learning in that then as well, about being generally a good person then and doing the right thing. You know, and I'm holding myself to account now, but we've um, a great man involved with the dublin football team. His name is john camber and he was actually an ex um secondary school teacher, irish teacher, but he's getting all the bottles in training and he's collecting them and every cent he's collecting he's giving it to St Francis Hospice.

Speaker 2 13:35

So that then instilled an idea in me. So, um, we're looking to do that in the, in the um, in the classroom now. Any bottles we collect, we'll try and donate it. And again, I'm all about in the classroom, it being a democracy. The children decide they have to end saying things, so we had a vote and they the children thought of five to end saying things. So we had a vote and they the children thought of five different charities and they ended up choosing make a wish foundation. That got the highest vote, so all the bottles we collect will go to that and um cheers. Not a great idea by the kids and it was their decision in the end, so and the ownership of it because, as you say, it was their decision.

Speaker 1 14:09

That's fantastic, that's great to's a lot of information in Irish and I'll tell you in Irish in a second. There's a lot of information in Irish and, as a school, I think it's important to do with Irish. But do you think the difference between the Irish and the Irish is it different, I suppose, between the Irish as a language? Is it important, I suppose, for the Irish language to be alive and to have the language to be heard in the future?

Innovation and Further Education

Speaker 2 14:36

Yes, it's important because I don't want to be seen by people who don't speak Irish. So I was worried when I was asked with the language, the language itself. So that's what I'm doing with the language. I'm going to put the language in every language and I think you have to do something different when you're speaking the language. You have to be able to do something different or something more specific, and I think that's important. So the whole structure of the song, the way it's written, I just put it on the screen how the song is going to be, how the song is going to sound, what kind of music is going to be in it. Then there's the chorus, where I put the lyrics together, and then there's the song itself, and then I'm going to put the story. I was a lot of Irish in your future, because you'll be able to learn a lot of Irish in your future in Ireland.

Speaker 1 15:55

Yeah, I'll be able to learn a lot of Irish, definitely With all the lessons that we have going on every day in class. Have you ever hit a really bad one? Did you ever have a day when you think, oh my God, I made an awful hint at that one?

Speaker 2 16:07

Yeah, sure, it happens all the time, like you know. For for me the best lessons is when the children are interacting as much as possible. So if you can get them interacting as much as possible, engaged, for me it's about, you know, moving around the classroom, engaging the children. So the ones that probably, in my opinion, that can tend to be the least interactive is probably the power points and you're going. When you're flicking through power points, the children are just can't get bored. So try and move around as much as possible, have probing questions for the children to really get them engaged I think is massively important. Um, and for me the best lessons are the ones where the children are doing the talking and they're, you know, giving their opinions.

Speaker 2 16:51

And then one recently I thought was a really good lesson, I suppose, was actually I'm doing a master's in education at the moment and the topic of choice is leadership, and it was actually Damien Burke who's one of the lecturers and he kind of probed me on this one with one of the lectures we did, but it was persuasive writing, but what the children did was I said I'm going to change anything you want in the classroom or in in relation to anything in the classroom, homework or anything like that, based off your persuasive writing. So each child did their own individual piece about what they would like to change in the classroom and then, based off that they're so engaged and what happened was they come to the front of the classroom then and I'd argue back with them then and then they'd argue back with me and it was just a really healthy discussion and conversation and we'd a bit of fun around it and based off that, we changed a couple of things and how we do things in the classroom, and I think that's very important as a teacher to be a good listener and listen to the children and listen to them how they would like the classroom to go or be run, and then we ended up changing them. Instead of doing read at home once a week, every two weeks we'd they get to choose their own book, something that they're interested in, and then write a couple of facts about what they learned in their book. Another one was more specific deer time in the day and allocated 10 minutes in a day for them to do their deer time and then, in relation to SESC topics, that we'd have a specific quiz at a specific time in a week, again to have a bit of fun and a bit of crack.

Speaker 2 18:23

So the way we'd structure things in the classroom is we'd have four groups, so we might have different teams. So for example, one week one group might be Mickey Mouse, one might be Donald Duck, one might be Goofy, one might be Tom and Jerry or whatever. So there's a bit of competition between the groups and the pods in the week. So at the end of the week you'll have a pod quiz and a certain amount of points will be allocated for the team. And it's just great, a bit of teamwork in the classroom, healthy competition, and you know they're very motivated to do well then, Okay, excellent For our post-primary listeners.

Speaker 1 18:57

Their dear time is to drop everything and read, where they have a bit of a quiet time and they can read something useful. So fair play, that's excellent. Actually, it sounds like I'd like to be in Mr Kilkenny's class, that's for sure. You talked there, Ciarán. You mentioned there about some further studies you're doing in education. Have you any learnings done there or taken any learnings there that you wouldn't have had previously that are affecting how you're going about your work now?

Speaker 2 19:26

A couple of things. I suppose. One for me is to be more actionable. If you have an idea, to mark it down and to follow through with it. There's so much good learn, good learning in it and it actually is helping me in a lot of different ways.

Sports Skills in Teaching Life

Speaker 2 19:41

Definitely is to be more actionable in school, if you're, if you've a thought or something, to say it and to do something about it. And so I was very fortunate then as well. I got to do some guest lectures in Merino this year as well. So from my practice of being a yoga teacher and I run health and wellness clubs in the school after school then as well so I got to do some guest lectures in there then as well. So that kind of encouraged me to do this course in leadership and to learn more as an individual and then, I suppose, being an opportunity then to be in a position to maybe be a principal one day or possibly do some lecturing. So for me, I'm learning so much on it and it can be hard to juggle everything because I've, you know, I'm trying to play sport, teacher of yoga business to run, and then I'm doing this course as well, but I kind of like being busy as well.

Speaker 1 20:32

Okay, the yoga business. What got you into that?

Speaker 2 20:34

Part of the wellness. So the wellness camps I was in the school was we did one week of athletics, one week of strength condition, one week of yoga, mindfulness and then one week of GAA. We were doing yoga in the school with the kids. So I kind of said I needed to upscale myself. So I went off and decided to go to Bali for four weeks. So I did a 200 hour teacher training course and got qualified in being a yoga teacher and then I came home and, yes, I settled the yoga business.

Speaker 2 21:05

So we do two classes for adults and then last year we did yoga for kids every Monday, then as well after school, which was great fun. Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting and you know it's again. It's a great opportunity for children to move, learn about their breath, learn how to do deal with pressure situations, whether it's a big exam or whether it's controlling, I suppose, their emotions but or um, preparing themselves for an exam or a match. I think it's great. You know, and it's one thing that we've done in our school which is great we do wellbeing Wednesdays in our school. So every Wednesday we allocate 10 minutes to do 10 minutes of movement, 10 minutes of mindfulness, 10 minutes of some yoga poses and the children are really enjoying it.

Speaker 1 21:49

Fair play. That's excellent. I suppose. If it's good enough for Rye Keane, it's good enough for the rest of us. But tell me this now and tell me no more. You're talking about the leadership thing and I'm always mindful before your time now.

Speaker 1 22:01

But when that great Dublin team of the 70s were Amara Raima, shortly after or sometime after, there used to be a magazine called McGill and the last issue of that magazine it's like a political magazine or business that kind of thing, but it had an issue called return to the hill and went through heffos and heffos players right 1 to 15 and they were all very successful in their careers outside of football, and I'm just conscious of what you're saying there about how you're balancing all these things. And then you had all these guys, one of whom was a teacher. Brian Mullins went on to become principal of the biggest school in Ireland at the time, I think, up in Carindona. What is it you're learning when you're involved, I suppose, in elite sports that you're able to transfer across into your life? When you go into elite sports, are you that kind of a person anyway, or is it a little bit of chicken and egg that while you're there you're learning transferable skills into your professional life?

Speaker 2 22:58

yeah, I think you're very fortunate to be involved in a high performing environment and a high performing atmosphere. As a Gaelic footballer, I'm you're constantly reflecting on yourself. How can you improve, how can you get, how can you get better? You're learning so many different skill skills in terms of time management, planning, nutrition, mindfulness, how to improve your technical skills. So for me, at the end of the year and as a coach you're trying to try and encourage players to do this is to assess yourself how you can do this. Then, as a teacher as well, assess how you're getting on or what areas you specifically need to improve on.

Speaker 2 23:39

For example, I'm a forward. I play as a forward, but I might need to improve on my footwork. I might need to improve on my defensive skills. I might need to improve on my tackling. I might need to improve on the breaking ball I might do. My nutrition might need to get better. My body fat might need to be get better.

Speaker 2 23:55

So you're always constantly reflecting on how you can improve and you're always looking at exploring different things to enable you to become better than as well. For example, at the moment I'm looking at getting a son into into my house so I can get longevity in my career. So it's just something. You're constantly thinking about it and for me, what I'm saying to encourage children to be involved in sports is teamwork, growth, mindset, continuous improvement, commitment, dedication. There's time management, like it's unbelievable qualities that you're learning and you know. For me, being involved in sport when you're going into an interview me being involved in sport when you're going into an interview then later on in life or any career, you've these amazing skills that you can bring forward then to any profession and I think it's great okay, obviously, what's ringing for me there now is obviously self-discipline must be huge in that, and I suppose, no matter what you're at, if you bring a high level of self-discipline to it, you can achieve an awful lot more, even on a daily basis.

Speaker 1 25:00

You know, you're getting a lot more out of your day, you're getting a lot more out of the kids in the class. Because you're bringing that to that, you probably just raise that in the school or in the classroom. I should say so. Look, ciara, just finishing up there. Now I'm going to ask you, you know, if you could change anything about our education system, what would you change about it?

Speaker 2 25:25

Yeah, it's a tough one. For me, it's creating as much opportunity to celebrate and herald children's talents and give them the opportunity to express their talents and their own individuality from a child's perspective, and then from another perspective, it's trying to encourage the retention of young teachers. In Ireland at the moment, I see a lot of people that I went to college with that are all going abroad to different countries, whether it's England, usa, new Zealand, australia. For me, we need to do our best to try and encourage those teachers to stay, because these are highly skilled people with the newest, best strategies coming out to our schools and we need to look to retain them as much as possible. How would you do that here?

Speaker 2 26:07

It's very challenging, for example, in Dublin. At the moment it's very challenging for people to stay in Dublin and teach in Dublin based off the cost it's just the cost. At the moment in Dublin it's so challenging for young teachers and they might have better opportunities abroad and it's very disheartening as a teacher to see that happen, because youth brings energy, brings energy, it brings enthusiasm. Youth brings energy, brings energy, it brings enthusiasm and you're missing a massive opportunity for young, energetic, skillful teachers coming into schools and bring their talents into the school. So I think the more we can do to encourage young teachers to stay in ireland the better, and I think we're missing a trick there at the moment, so I don't know what can be done there.

Speaker 1 26:53

Would you believe, ciarán? When I started off first as a principal teacher, I had to fill in a very long paper form and one of the questions on the form was does a house come with a job? It used to be, years ago, the schoolmaster's house. Now they wouldn't have been in Dublin but they would have been in other places. And it used to be a schoolmaster's house, but that was a long time ago. Maybe they need to go back to giving houses to teachers or something. But you're right, yeah, dublin's going to be in an awful state if we can't maintain the amount of teachers we need. I remember working in London years ago and they had that same problem. They couldn't keep teachers in a staff room, just couldn't keep them, and it really did affect the quality of education. But anyway, look at Ciarán, you've been an absolute gent. Go raibh míle, míle maith agus tacht agus láirclinganíó. We got an insight into Ciarán Kilkenny the teacher, because not a lot of people know Ciarán the footballer, but you know, for the purposes of the teacher. And look at, I wish yourself the very, very best and I hope you have a great day. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 28:17

Tune in next week for another episode of Teachers Themselves. Don't forget to go back and find episodes from previous seasons. All well worth a listen. Please subscribe, share with colleagues and friends, leave us a review or send us a message. Your feedback informs the show. You can follow us across our social media channels. The links are in the show notes. If you have any thoughts on today's episode or suggestions for future topics, email Zita here at zrobinson at dwecie. That's Z Robinson at D-W-E-C dot I-E. Oh, and, as always, don't forget to book your CPD with D-W-E-C dot I-E. W-w-w dot. D-w-e-c dot I-E. Thanks again. Have a great week. Slán tamall Teachers Themselves is a D-W-E-C original Produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre.