Teachers Themselves

Dermot Looney: Serving the Community – Inside and Outside of School

• Dublin West Education Support Centre • Season 2 • Episode 5

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Dermot Looney's story is not just one of teaching but of someone who is deeply connected to local history and community. Our conversation with Dermot delves into his career as a dedicated primary school teacher in Tallaght, his teaching philosophy and the indelible impact of his environment on personal growth. 

This episode is an example of the outstanding educators that we have in Ireland. Dedicated people such as Dermot, whose interests extend far beyond the classroom walls and encompass deep connections to locality and community and which in turn, are passed on to students, striking at the heart of what it means to nurture and empower the next generation.

Demonstrating a profound satisfaction derived from serving the community in any capacity, Dermot recounts his foray into politics with a fulfilling tenure as a local Councillor and Mayor, and his current role as HSCL Coordinator. 

As Dermot and Ultan reflect on the essence of education - fostering relationships and aligning school ethos with the community's aspirations - this episode is a testament to the fact that educators like Dermot are not only shaping minds but also the very soul of the community they serve. 

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Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre produced by Zita Robinson.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Welcome to the Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, Ultan Mac Mathúna. This podcast is brought to you by Dublin West Education Centre. We're located on the grounds of TUD Tallaght, serving and supporting the school communities of West Dublin and beyond. Welcome to season two of Teachers Themselves. Episodes this season will feature informal chats with some of the experienced dedicated educators who are working in Irish schools and the broader education sector people who are making a big difference to the world of education in Ireland.

Dermot Looney:

I always really enjoy that. The positive relationship you can have as a classroom teacher or in the current role as well as HSCL, the positivity and the connections you can make are really the foundation for everything else that comes after pedagogy and everything else.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Welcome to the Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm joined today by Dermot Looney. Dermot is a primary school teacher from Green Hills in Dublin. He's been working in Dominic's National School in Tallaght here for almost 15 years. He's primarily at the senior end of the school, but most recently he's in the position of home school community liaison coordinator. His interests include local history, geography, natural heritage, as well as ICT and a keen interest in combating education disadvantage. Relevant to his new role Now, there are some very interesting things about Dermot's life that we're going to get to grips within a wee while, but including his term as the mayor of South County Dublin and his stint as a historian publishing the book Sympathics Athletic Saint Rising the Early History of Sympathics Athletic FC. You're from Green Hills, dermot, are you? I am Ultan. Yeah, and tell me this now, because I often ask my guests this how did Green Hills, tallaght, dublin, how did that form, dermot Looney?

Dermot Looney:

Yeah, well, it's really interesting and like people who are listening will have their own local histories and their own stories there. Green Hills is a small little place. A lot of people wouldn't know where it is. It's kind of near Walkinstown in Dublin 12. Some people think it's part of Tallaght. We're a little bit further along from Tallaght but Green Hills is a really ancient place. It's about 4,000 years old. There've been people there since the Bronze Age and since Stone Age and right where I grew up people know the area. There's a little on the Green Hills Road. There were findings there of urns from I don't know about 1800 BC, so we're talking about 4,000 years ago. There were people living in that area. But of course, the Green Hills I knew it was only built in the 1960s as a housing estate.

Dermot Looney:

Tallaght is a really interesting story too, where I work and where you're based, Ultan, because Tallaght was a country village in essence up until the 1950s or so and in the 1960s it had grown a little bit. A new plan was come up by Dublin County Council and the government at the time which said Tallaght is going to be this brand new town, along with Luke and Anglund, Ultan and Blanchardstown and Swords and they're going to build out into the suburbs and this entire new suburb was created with nearly 100,000 people over the next 15 years or so. So the Tallaght we know now was very, very different, say, 60 or 70 years ago, a country village with a farming and agricultural background to it. So history and local history is important to me and I think everyone will have their own story of how their community developed, so you're well bet into the locality and what it means to you.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

What kind of a person did it make you become?

Dermot Looney:

That's a fascinating question. I attended my local schools St Peter's Boys National School, which is now the Holy Spirit marriage schools, with the girls, and then I went to Green Hills College, which is a boys secondary school in Green Hills. They're both schools which are now DEIS status and you know it was a working-class area that I grew up into with a great mix of people. A lot of my school friends were from Tallaght as well and I think I got a good social education there. I'd like to think it had a positive impact on me in terms of my understanding of where people came from. I came from a very lucky background great, stable family and lots of friends and supports in the community. Now, looking back as a teacher working in a DEIS school, which I am now, I'd like to think that that had a positive impact on me and also gives me a bit of an understanding for the community around me and around the school.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So you went to two schools there in Greenhouse, two sterling schools with great reputations. Was it teachers there made you want to become a teacher, or was it your idea around how you contribute to society, or was it a mixture of both? What spurred you on to become a teacher?

Dermot Looney:

That's another great question, Ultan, I listened to some of your earlier series podcasts and you had people like Fiona Forman and people who really wanted to become teachers from a young age and I have colleagues here there's people listening to this podcast, no doubt who really you know from four or five years of age when they were in school starting themselves or had the teddies out in the bedroom and the blackboard and they were teaching them. And that wasn't the case for me at all and teaching was never really on my radar. I didn't really know anyone who'd become a teacher. That was not one of my family who would become a teacher through the traditional routes and you know, going to an all boys school, what's now exposed to DEIS school or disadvantaged status as it was at the time teaching and talk of going into primary teaching for college and stuff. It just wasn't a common route for anyone. So I didn't think of teaching.

Dermot Looney:

I remember going and because I played the guitar a bit, I was brought into four or five different sound recording studios and people thought I was going to become involved in the sound industry. I'd never expressed an interest in it. Well, I suppose that was where career guidance brought us in those days. So I ended up going to UCD and doing a degree in social science which I absolutely loved and even, you know, at 23, 24 years of age, had no idea I would go into teaching, other than the fact that I had had a bit of involvement through college and stuff with local schools. And in terms of looking back now, what really inspired me about education, I had some brilliant teachers and I was very, very lucky in primary school I think and you know, it's a feeling of working them out to have had some wonderful teachers, carry men and temporary men like Matt Hurley and Mr.

Dermot Looney:

O'Donoghue in St Peter's. They were just these brilliant teachers, marisol O'Donoghue, and they had you're talking to me earlier podcast about, like the teachers who had a bit of freedom to teach, who would go in depth into certain areas, who weren't necessarily by the book or by the paperwork, and they really you know, looking back over our big influences on the kind of teacher that I am now, I wouldn't be the greatest for paperwork but I certainly love to get in depth on certain topics with kids, but also it's the building of relationship with kids. So they had a positive impact on me most certainly, as it's some of my secondary school teachers do.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, I suppose teachers like that. They have a passion which children have enough savvy to be able to understand that they cared about this and they cared about, cared enough about me to want me to know this, and that's probably where your local history bit as well fits in there, snugly into that too. Not only does he care about me, he cares about where I'm from, which kind of doubles down on that for a child to think you know, that guy at the top of the class, that lady at the top of the class cares about me, but also cares about where I'm from. That's a lovely thing for a child to be able to grow up with 100%.

Dermot Looney:

And I think community pride or knowledge or being involved in community itself is so key to a child's understanding of place and space of belonging.

Dermot Looney:

And you know, I do think like where you know a lot of your listeners will be from or working outside of Dublin and maybe in a country town, in a rural area.

Dermot Looney:

Everywhere there will have great community pride. There'll be the local GA Club, there will be organizations and tidy towns and groups like that. They exist in Dublin too, all of those groups, but sometimes in new suburbs, like where I grew up, in Green Hills, or like in Tallaght, you know areas that have really only found their feet maybe in the past 20 or 30 years. Teaching about that local history and geography and sense of belonging and sense of place and space it is our job as teachers to do that. It's not going to come automatically to children or indeed to adults. So I've tried to do that a little bit in my teaching in Tallaght and developed that kind of sense of well, actually this is a really interesting area and you're part of the story of this area and you're the new generation of that story in this area and I think the kids tend to really enjoy that and love learning about the past in that area and where they come from as citizens of Tallaght is the case locally here.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, you took that then into your new role, I'm sure, as homeschool community liaison. That is a fascinating role. It's not available to all teachers because you have been a desk school to have that in your school. What's your favorite part about that job?

Dermot Looney:

Yeah, it is a fascinating role. I'm sure some of your listeners wouldn't be overly familiar with it, because if you're not working in a DEIS school, you won't have one, and even if you are working in a DEIS school, you're likely not going to be one. I think there's about 500 in the country.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You may explain it, because some of our listeners aren't even in Ireland, so just give us a quick rundown there please.

Dermot Looney:

So it is a bit of a mouthful for us. So homeschool community liaison coordinator is the full title of the role. We do abbreviate the HSCL in one of those great kind of abbreviations that comes up across education. But my main role is working with parents and the HSCL scheme is based in schools where there is significance, also economic disadvantage, and your main role is supposed to work with parents in terms of making sure that our children attend school as much as possible, stay in school and participate in school. So you're working with the parents.

Dermot Looney:

You're working with guardians, the salient adult in the child's life, to really try and promote issues around attendance and participate in the school and staying in school, and that might be, for example, going out and visiting their home and helping them, maybe with linking in with services. It might also be running courses, which I do for parents here in the school, maybe getting someone in or myself to run a course, and it could be something as simple as a yoga group or walking. Well, this week we've done a brilliant course. We had a healthy food course where parents came in and did some cooking, learned some healthy food preparation. We have a course tomorrow on STEAM Science, tech, engineering, art and Maths that the parents are taking part in.

Dermot Looney:

We do literacy programs and numeracy programs with the parents. It's really working with the parents to help with their kids and their lives and we work with some wonderful, wonderful parents. But we also work with parents who have really struggled and are having difficulties and trying to link them in with the services that are available and we have so many pressures on parents at the moment. So it's a tricky role but it's a very interesting role and it's really really different to class teaching, which is what I've done for the previous kind of 14 years of my teaching career.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Brilliant. It really is a challenge and I would always maintain that it's the best preparation for the role of the principal his home school liaison because it affords you the ability to see the school from other perspectives which you don't as a class teacher get to do, and it gets you into, as you've said, there are different. It gets you to the homes of so many children in your school and once you're in their home you can understand them a lot better, you can relate to them a lot better, they can relate to you a lot better. You just get that other perspective then of how all the bits fit together. It's brilliant, brilliant role and it's such a capacity for improving the lot of the children, particularly the most marginalized children and their parents, and building a massive trust between the school and them, because they may not have had a positive experience of school when they were children themselves. So it's a chance maybe to repair that damage and build trust, and once you have the trust you can make great progress down with the children.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

But anyway, I'm digressing a small bit there. What I'm tapping to now is, I suppose, your other interests for a minute, because the whole community thing leads me into your fascination with the Garrison game. Some will call it, I'd say Maristadona and St Peter's might call it that you are an avid fan of St Pat's soccer club FC. They're in Inchicore. Why did you go to them and not Shamrock Rovers? By the way?

Dermot Looney:

Well, they're my local club, actually Shamrock Rovers. Slightly further away if you look in Google Maps, my dad's from Inchicore. My dad actually played very briefly for Pat's. My family is from there.

Dermot Looney:

I'm much interested in some of my history research which I never knew. It was at my grandfather who died back in the 1950s. I never knew him. I had actually been on one of the very early committees of the club. There's something no one in the family knew, but I covered in a document I found one day that was really fascinating. So, look, I'm a football fan. Liverpool would be my team in England, but St Pat's are my team in Ireland. When I was a teenager, I started going to games and finding my love for it, so I've recently written a history book about St Pat's and I run a project online and we do lots of events and talks with people like Brian Kerr, and football is a great way, as a teacher, of communicating with students as well. Right, particularly in Tallaght here this is a hotbed of soccer, but I also coached GA here in school and I think it's just brilliant to have it involved in sports.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

We launched that book, actually a big football fan in Ireland, the president, met you and you got a chance to present him with a copy of the book, along with self-same Brian Kerr, who was manager at St Pat's for a while too, brian Kerr, was he one or two stints as manager?

Dermot Looney:

Well, brian Kerr was a manager of St Pat's for 10 years, for a very long period, 1986 to 1996. We got to see the president this time last year, february last year. I'd known the president from some political campaign and I would have done with him. But he's a massive interest in football and he had actually really presented him with the book the weekend before I had dropped it up to the RSE. He'd actually read it, he knew what was in it, which is remarkable. He must get so many books and stuff through the post.

Dermot Looney:

But he is really interested in the power of sport in communities and again going back to history, the sense of belonging, the sense of community. So that's community of Inchicore and Dublin 8 and Southwest of the inner city, going out as far as Clondalkin and stuff. St Pat's is a really important part of the story of that area and I was lovely to tell that story in a book form for the first time. But sport is brilliant and sport is a great way to connect and you know this is well-known with kids in a primary school anyway. It's a great way of just bonding with them having a laugh. So we're working in Shamrock Rovers, heartland, here in Tallaght. So we've great practice with the kids and we'd see them at the games, but also they'd be roaring at me across the yard when Rovers beat Pat, which does happen on occasion.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Well, funny enough, actually I was working out in Clondalkin for good while I'm Pat Dole and who you'll remember as manager of Pat's. He was a gregarious character and we needed a new set of jerseys for our football and hurling team. As it was in the time at the time of the school, and there was a parent who had an interest in Pat's. He says did you ever think of asking Pat's? And I said but you're dead of soccer club. He says I'm telling you now. He says sorry, I banged off a letter to Pat Dole and he'd been on the telly to show the Pat's match live and I happened to be looking at it and he was very passionate with the sideline. I'd put in a bit about great seat passion and it was unbridled passion.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You know it was brilliant and he's a real football man and sportsman. Anyway, I wrote off to him and I said any chance, you sponsored even some of the set of jerseys. This is back when it's hard to get an old few barbed wire of anyone Not only to sponsor the jerseys, but they sponsored the tugs and the socks as well, because we've made it as far as club park and the schools competition, a really magnanimous gesture on the part of the club and Pat Dole and at the time was really touched by it. You know, but it goes back to what you're saying about community.

Dermot Looney:

And it's brilliant community work going on there now with that club but also with a lot of league of Ireland clubs where they've caught up with other sports in terms of, you know they're going into schools, they're organizing coaching but they're also, you know, relating it into the curriculum and it's a guy called Niall Cully, down at St Pat's, their community officer, who's done brilliant work there.

Dermot Looney:

And you know our GA club here locally, thomas Davis and Tallaght do wonderful work. I just think it's fantastic to see those clubs heavily involved in the schools. The kids get a huge amount out of. The community ultimately benefits massively from those links that take place. So soccer is beginning to catch up. Ga is way better at doing this stuff and I know other sports and other organizations are probably a bit smaller, will be in certain places, but isn't it brilliant to have them in the school? Your GPOs, as they come out, train the kids and then they get the kids up to the academy the weekend. It's been a great link that that GA has made and I think soccer is beginning to make with a lot of skills.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, because if they buy into it, as somebody said to me once, it's not a past time, it's a lifestyle choice. And if they can get into a club, it doesn't matter what it is. It could be Harlem football, it could be music, it could be drama. Whatever they're a member of the club, they feel a part of it. It's a lifestyle choice and they'll stay with them forever. Please, god, you know no more in your own family in St Pat's, as we were mentioning the president, michael D, above in the park. You had a connection with him outside of football too, because you were a politician for many of the year and your soldier at heart on behalf of the people of South County Dublin, and to the point where actually, you were the youngest ever County Mayor, I think back in 2014,. You were a member of the Labour Party at the time. Tell me about how you got into it. Did somebody twist your arm or did you jump at it, or was it a power grab down at, or what happened that got you into politics?

Dermot Looney:

in the first place. So, to start with, ultimately nobody likes politicians, right? So I never refer to myself as a politician. I don't think I was right. So I was a county counsellor and, like your listeners might not be aware, like county counsellors are, in essence, part of time. Well, this is quite a contentious thing. They work full time before. Part time wages is probably the best thing to say about what they do.

Dermot Looney:

County and city counsellors in Ireland. I was very young when I got involved. I had been involved with student politics. I've been involved in local kind of community campaigns. I didn't really want to run for elections back in 2009, but there was our local counsellor. It was great guy. Colaymond Walters was retiring and it was a spot up and I thought it was a little bit better than one or two of the other people who maybe wanted to go for it. So I drew my name in the hat. I was selected to run. I was in the Labour Party at the time, you're right. I'm not since gone out of it, but that's how I was at the time I was about 25.

Dermot Looney:

Fair play. So I was young and I was also only starting my teaching career. So I went to Ibernia at the same time and you know I was trying to juggle quite a lot going on and my first year my dip years it was at the time I was running for election. It was really, really difficult to juggle all that stuff together and. But I ran in 2009 at local elections for Tala Central and I was lucky to be elected, but we did well with a great campaign team, and so I was on the council then for five years and then in 2014, I ran for a second time.

Dermot Looney:

I was an independent at that stage and the area had changed to refer to a temporal tenure, and I was elected for another five years and I finished up that 2019. I thought that stage is on 10 years and I had done enough time, so I decided to run again. But during the 10 years I got, you know, a great range of experience. A lot of it connected into education, a lot of it connected into teaching, but had to juggle it with being a teacher with the day job, and that was tough. There's no two ways about it. I would run out here from the school we finish at half two and by three o'clock I would be up in County Hall quite a lot the days of the week which is up in Tallaght for meetings because you're full of meetings or maybe down at local school or for a board of management meeting or meeting local residents about an issue or whatever.

Dermot Looney:

So I kind of juggled two jobs for most of those 10 years. The one great year I got was the year I was mayor 2013 to 14, because I got to have a career break that year and so I got to do it full time and that was just brilliant. It was great because it was full time and I was doing a job and many of your listeners will have met their mayor coming out to lift a green flag or do something. It's a really positive job. People are happy to see you and I got to share some important things and do some cool things during that year. So it was a great experience to do the council for 10 years, but I'm glad to finish because I don't know how sustainable it is as a teacher to try and mix it with another in essence, another job as a last time.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

What's your highlight from that year? Jeremy, If you were to look back on that year as the mayor, what's your stand out If you'd have been wanting?

Dermot Looney:

So I did the thing at the time. Now I was actually looking recently at how much councillors are paid. So at the time councillors were paid 16,000 euro a year, which is taxed. So I wasn't coming out with a huge amount of money. But the year I was mayor I was on a full time wage and there was a bit of an issue around at the time around how much politicians were getting paid. So I said I would donate 10,000 euro from my salary at the time to a community fund and we did it very fairly. It wasn't just giving it to my mates or my local area.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

We had a really good system, the impact didn't end up with it anyway.

Dermot Looney:

No, it was impats which are not in South Dublin County Sure we're not sure yeah we did this all right.

Dermot Looney:

We had, I think, 50 groups basically benefit from this mayor's fund. The deputy mayor at the time put in money to it as well and it was really cool like small grants but it wasn't a big application process, so these small little groups were getting funds that they might have access to. So I was really proud of that. And, look, I got to do brilliant things like opening, you know, community centers and going around speaking to all sorts of brilliant community groups. That's a really positive thing. Like Tallah, which is the place that you and I about working, and the community around are just fantastic for the amount of community activity that takes place. Clandalkan, where you used to work, is the same.

Dermot Looney:

There's areas around here in South Dublin County that are just phenomenal in terms of the volunteers who put in countless hours to their communities. So that was a brilliant thing about being mayor. You got to go to meet them and maybe recognize the work that they're doing, and people are very appreciative when they're recognized publicly like that. And of course, then you get to see lots of schools Going with the chain, the primary skills, and from the chain on a junior infant and of course, they might try to eat it because they think there's chocolate inside. But we'd brilliant fun and I think I was in about 40 or 50 schools that year and, according to the mayor, the role now at the moment I just see him very similar going into the schools having the crack with the kids and the kids get to see. You know, the local community appreciates what they're doing in terms of like come for the green flag or whatever it is.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, I think it's. Actually it's really important to Dublin. I think outside of the major urban areas there's politicians seem to be more involved with their politicians. You know, maybe here in the bigger cities we see them as more distant and more inaccessible, but in truth they're not. You know, if you go at most politicians you'll get their ear. The mayor may not be able to help you, but you at least get their ear. But what you said there, I suppose is true too, in that what you were afforded the ability to do was recognize the massive effort by volunteers in the communities in which we're working. And it has always blown me away how these people they're lovely people to meet, actually they're always good people to meet. People who volunteer are generally very positive, energetic people. Generally there are pleasure to meet, spend time with them. If you can go a long way to say thanks for all that because you're wearing a chain of office, it's a great thing to be able to do. It must have been very empowering for you and very affirming for you as well.

Dermot Looney:

Affirming is absolutely right word. And, like when I take back to school, it's like there is an extraordinary amount of work goes on in all our schools Sometimes too much, I would argue. Teacher, in terms of the initiative overload. You know the amount of all the colours of the rainbow represented on the flag, so we're now kind of expected to do the work that goes into, say, a green flag we just picked out as an example, like it's very important that it's not just a flag that arrives one day at the school and that's it. You need to make a big deal out of it. You need to show the children that the work they put in and the staff, the work they put in is recognized and is affirmed. So that's a great word to use for the work that a mayor or a local politician can have To go back to.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

As you said, they're going back into the schools and bring all back to the schools. What makes you happiest?

Dermot Looney:

when you're in school Like with the kids, I would say and also like those eureka moments where kids kind of get something that they mightn't have got before. And you know like some teachers have great expertise in particular subjects and you know I'm no expert in any of them, but I do like, for example, we talk a bit about history and geography today, where a kid really gets in depth and finds a love for a particular topic or a particular issue, and I love it's a local thing because it gives them that sense of belonging to the community. And when working in a working class area you know, an area like Tala is frequently stacked off and has a certain name among some people and so on it's really, really crucial that those children grow up with as much pride in their community as anyone else in the country, and so I've always loved that when kids come out proud of where they live, learning about where they live, learning about the history of it, learning about the nature that's around them and so on. So I love that those and those eureka moments, once reaching common any subject to come to maths or English are always brilliant.

Dermot Looney:

I did a great course in Dublin West education centre. I did a course that many people have done, which is incredible years, which is run by neps, and I really loved the relationship building aspect of it and I felt it affirmed the work that I was trying to do with the kids and I took on a little bit more from it. So I always really enjoyed that. The positive relationship you can have as a classroom teacher or in my current role as well as HSCL, the positivity and the connections you can make are really the foundation for everything else that comes after pedagogy and everything else. So the relationship building and knowing you know you build a great relationship with a kid at the end of teaching them is another great moment you can have to.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

It's funny how frequently that comes up in these interviews the relational nature of our job and how everything is dependent on it. What do you think, Dermot, that a teacher needs the most? So I'm a teacher of seven or eight years. I have got the back broken on the initial learning and all that kind of stuff, so I'm far and away in all cylinders. But what does every teacher need the most?

Dermot Looney:

So before I answer, like I'm an imposter here, definitely I have total imposter syndrome. I am not an expert and although I'm teaching 14 or 15 years, I still feel like a total newbie. And I've listened to some of your podcast guests before and they're proper experts in their fields and I'm absolutely not right. There's a kicker listening to this, like you can call it off. You know, the most important thing I think for any teacher is relationship building. I really think it's key and I have some great contacts here.

Dermot Looney:

In my own school Some of the teaching practice students that came in to me are now working here and now permanent teachers here, and I've looked at them and how brilliantly they've done since they started in their teaching and they've done it by building brilliant relationships with kids. And I think you can't begin proper pedagogy, you can't begin really getting deep in content areas, without the kids having respect and relationship with you that is positive and working in the Deschewal there's a particular challenge because there can be lots of issues around attendance or around, possibly, behavior. There's always issues in high school around additional needs and so on. But if you don't build that relationship I think you're in trouble from day one. But I'm lucky to work at a place where there's just such a positive, caring, friendly, collaborative relationship with children, and I think great learning takes place from that.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Well, as you know, I've been up to Dominic's more than once and it is a special school. It's a great school. You know the minute it's like that, you know the minute you walk in this is a great school. This is the kind of place you'd like your child to go to. You could just feel it the minute you walk in. So all credit to all the staff there and the shameless law and the principle. It's just a top school. And in relation to the kids, what do you think a child needs the most in school?

Dermot Looney:

This is a really interesting question because it comes down to some of the work I'm trying to do.

Dermot Looney:

I've only started as a HSCL coordinator in September and so we have to look at some of the really basic things. So, for example, children arriving to school maybe with breakfast, which can often be an issue in an addiction environment, but also in any environment. To have safety and security in school, I would say, is really really key for the child to feel welcomed. And again going back to relationship building with the child doesn't feel welcome in that environment for whatever reason. They're really going to struggle to learn and to achieve their potential. So I think all teachers have to make that special effort to make everyone feel welcome in their environment and that can be a big challenge. Like I don't underestimate how tricky that can sometimes be if there's a child who is causing particular issues. But all of us have to work really hard to find a common ground and build that relationship with the child so that the child feels firstly, happy and safe and welcome in that place to begin their learning. I've always taught that, but I've kind of seen it even a bit more in the HSCL role.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Only you should mention that word welcome. Remember somebody of mine a lot said to me once about a child coming in late to school. The last thing you do is berate them over being late. Number one is probably not their fault either. Just a child, particularly in the primary school setting. You thank them for coming in great to see you. What a way to start off. And somebody said that actually in relation to I go to an AA meeting and they're late and they welcome me with open arms and say thank God you got here. I go to the church late and they're top-top because I'm interrupted things. I don't know, it shouldn't have been the other way around, but anyway.

Dermot Looney:

What we don't know as teachers is the and I was a classroom teacher for most of my teaching what you don't ever know for sure is the exact environment that child has come from, the exact experience that child has had. That morning.

Dermot Looney:

It's really what it's thinking about and this works for teachers in non-DEIS environments as well. There will often be a child in your class who has a really tricky situation at home and there's a reason their homework isn't on and there's a reason they're late and pick your battles. That's not your battle necessarily with that child. With other children that may be the battle. But there's some great reading A red recently, katrina O'Sullivan's book Poor, which is a fabulous, fabulous read, the most read you have, the most read for anybody working in the school, doesn't it?

Dermot Looney:

For those who haven't read it, it is about a wonderful woman who has achieved so much since but who grew up in a really, really difficult environment A virus parent in England and the positive impact teachers had on her, but also the negative impact some teachers had about picking those wrong battles with a child who was coming from a very, very deprived and very difficult circumstance. So we never know for sure Sometimes you're only given partial information as a teacher where a children are coming from. That friendly face, that smile at the door, that welcome in the door in the morning or in the line or wherever you are, is going to work out for you and for the child and the like.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Dermot, each guest is asked to write an anonymous question for another guest. The question that has been assigned to you is what steps can the department take to ensure that school ethos and patronage is in line with parents' wishes for their children? So that's something we haven't touched on. So what steps can the Department of Education take to ensure that school ethos and patronage is in line with parents' wishes for their children?

Dermot Looney:

What brilliant question feeds into politics, very much so. And what's been done in terms of you know when the divestment stuff started, which hasn't really worked out I think anyone involved in that could recognize that and the parents' wishes. I think one of the reasons so what's happened, I think in some circumstances is schools have said well, we're looking at maybe going from a Catholic school to being non or multi-denominational. What do you think it is? And you know parents are surveyed, sometimes communities are surveyed. Who exactly is surveyed is always a bit of a bonnet contention, but I think parents rightly fear the unknown. So, particularly if there's a divestment or there's a change in ethos at the school, they can really fear what's going to happen. And when that fear is there, things like Facebook groups and things like certain misinformation stuff can come out and fill the void, particularly where there's not a really clear indication of what's going to happen.

Dermot Looney:

So I think, look, you know just totally per se speaking on behalf of anyone else, but from my own point of view, I do think we should be looking to secularize our primary school system in particular. But we have to bring parents along with you and I think the best way of doing that is to show that there will be little enough impact on day-to-day schools. I think you have to relate people's fears as well, like there's been a great involvement in our own school here, for example, from the local parish, the local community. They should still be involved here. Secularizing the school or, for example, removing religious education from the timetable, doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. You can keep that parish involvement here in the school. You can help children prepare for sacraments and so on. So giving people like firm details of what things are going to look like if you are going along a change of ethos, I think is really key.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's a very considered answer. Thanks a million, Dermot. So just to finish up because I've gleaned from our time chatting here now and we've met before, Dermot, but it was great to get this kind of a chat and talk about it is your passion for community, your passion for place and your passion for people. I think you're in the right job at the moment. Actually, it's a job where you can affect great change in line with what motivates you as a person intrinsically and, I think, as people. If we can do that, you've done a good day's work. But one thing I'll ask before you leave is when are you most at peace in?

Dermot Looney:

yourself. That's a great question and I don't think I'm necessarily at peace in my work, but I think that's okay. I don't think you necessarily need to be at peace in your work environment If you're in a work environment that doesn't overly stress you. So peace isn't something I necessarily find true. Teaching I don't think it's particularly peaceful profession and at the HSCL all, I don't think it's peaceful either. It's extremely busy.

Dermot Looney:

As you saw, when I came into this podcast I was fairly flustered, having come from something that I overran. So I would find peace maybe in my home. I like to play the guitar the entire time. I'm no good at it but it suits me personally and of course, I have a background in football or supporting football and going to the games and being surrounded by friends and family. So there are the ways I would find peace. Now, I do love nature, alton. Like it's lovely to be out in the outdoors and again, it's something I really think our primary school colleagues like myself and your own background we should be getting the kids out into nature more. We shouldn't be confined to the classroom. The good weather is coming soon and we should be out exploring and getting to our local parks and wherever else we can get to. So I find a certain amount of peace in my daily walks around, time in the park which is right beside me, and listen to the birdsong which is coming out on very strong now in the middle of spring.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Well, Dermot, that was an absolutely lovely way to finish up. I'd like to thank you sincerely for making time for us in a very, very busy schedule to record this podcast. So, Dermot Looney Grameel and Miel Maharet- Maharet Grameet

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Tune in next week for another episode of Teachers Themselves and if you're enjoying this season, go back and find episodes from season one all around CPD. Don't forget to hit that bell, like and subscribe, leave us a review and share it with colleagues and friends. We want to hear from you. Your feedback informs the show, so look out for the episode, questions and polls. You can follow us across our social media channels Instagram, twitter, linkedin, facebook. The links are in the show notes. If you have any thoughts on today's episode or suggestions for future topics, email Zita here at Z Robinson@ dwec. ie. Zita is at Z Robinson@ dwec. ie. Oh and, as always, don't forget to book your CPD. Go to our website, dwec. ie. That's dwec. ie. Miel Maharet reached. Have a great week, Slán Tamaill.

Dermot Looney:

Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre.

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