Teachers Themselves

Educational Alchemy: How the Arts and Extra-Curriculars Can Enrich Learning with Cormac O'Farrell

• Dublin West Education Support Centre • Season 2 • Episode 4

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This episode of Teachers Themselves, features Teaching Principal, Cormac O’Farrell. Cormac has a dedication to teaching and education, only matched by his dedication to the Arts and extra-curricular activities. 

This conversation isn't just about traditional teaching; it's an exploration into school leadership and the alchemy of the arts in shaping an educator's prowess. As he recounts the seamless blend of his passions - from drama to sports - you're invited into a world where the extracurricular is just as crucial as the curriculum, forging deeper connections with students and stitching a rich tapestry of school life that extends far beyond the classroom. 

As the episode unfolds, we delve into the essence of primary education's evolving landscape, where Cormac and Ultan ponder the foundational skills that mark a child's educational journey. 

So join us, as we celebrate an educator who not only imparts knowledge but also imprints lasting memories, reminding us that the heart of teaching truly lies in the joy of learning and the relationships nurtured along the way.

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Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre produced by Zita Robinson.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Welcome to the Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, Ultan Mac Mathúna. This podcast is brought to you by Dublin West Education Centre. We're located on the grounds of TU D Tallaght, serving and supporting the school communities of West Dublin and beyond. Welcome to season two of Teachers Themselves. Episodes this season will feature informal chats with some of the experienced dedicated educators who are working in Irish schools and the broader education sector people who are making a big difference to the world of education in Ireland.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I love doing all those things, you know. Just the variation in the primary school curriculum is great. You get to do all these things, you know. You're not a one trick pony, you have to be a Renaissance man, you know.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So you're all very welcome again to this episode of Teachers Themselves. Joining me is Cormac O'Farrell. Cormac O'Farrell is 25 years teaching. Cormac is a teaching principal for 16 years and still has all his own faculties. He before that was nine years at St Mary's Boys National School in Rathfarnam and in fairness he has a vast array of interests amateur drama, gaelic football, boxing, you name it and all things community related. Cormac has a great reputation as somebody who can give common sense advice in a friendly and in an approachable manner and is an absolute star on our management committee here, as well as many other roles he takes in the community around his own school, in Brittas and beyond Ballybowden and the environment. So, Cormac, you're very welcome to the programme. Thank you, Cormac. Tell me first a little bit about Cormac O'Farrell, where you're from, why you got into teaching and how you found yourself.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Well, I'm originally from Rathfarnham, From the parish of Ballyboden. You know, you yourself and me, so I've been involved in all the bodybuilding in this. Very few people from Alley Bowden parish are involved in Alley Bowden, St Endas, where I'm from, the estate of Glendora, it's just inside the parish of Alley Bowden, so that's where I'm originally from, born, bred and buttered there, the middle of two brothers, of three boys, three boys, you know, and so grew up there. Very brilliant home life, grown up and a wonderful place to grow up. They say we're in the area we're in. We wanted for nothing. Wonderful parents, of course as well.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know, we're very interested in education actually, and that probably stemmed from the fact that my grandmother, my mother's mother, was a teacher. Back in 1977, she came up to Dublin to live with us for 11 years and 50 to eight herself, and I'd say that would have had a big impact on me. People used to visit the house and meet Mrs Daly, as she was, and she was a legend, you know, and you used to see this. You know there's a lot of this teaching. You know, I don't know who the teacher is well, nor a cousin is a teacher, so there's a lot of education and teaching in the family. So I was at that when I did the leave and search. I didn't get the honour and the honours I was kind of what I applied for. I went to work for six years, worked in the Irish Life Insurance Company in Abbey Street and went back as a mature student a so-called mature student, I'd say Mature in years, yeah, yeah.

Cormac O'Farrell:

At the age of 25, I went back to Marino and I remember go on in with it. You know Marino was magnificent small classes of when, a small class of 40 people, it was 10 lads in our class, it was as well as the lads in our class, you know but made lifelong friends there, you know, and we're all in it together. Remember going in thinking, okay, I'm the mature one here, do I kind of put on the mature hat and put the head down, or we're kind of getting old people and enjoying yourself and make the most of the college experience. Yeah, I think it's safe to say I did Great. And then when I came out of college, three, three great years and then we used to have to do a four-year in the evenings in Marino, basically go to Trinity for toilet courses, use column half-four to have six Took on your first year of teaching, but very good as well.

Cormac O'Farrell:

We kind of got to meet up with all the everyone's out teaching at your college and that was a. It was a real kind of hidden thing going on there, a hidden curriculum, if you like. You know we were all in our classes all over the city coming in, all different problems, all different issues. You know first year teachers great to bounce things off people like that.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

It was like meetings before the, before the seven or eight years with no facilitator.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, they were often over a point.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, you were self-motivating learners.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Now we're just going for a point, you know we're a nice title on it. But yeah, great times they really were, you know, and at that time as well, I got teaching in my final so I could actually I was living at home and I could walk to school, you know, which was a lovely 15 minute walk, very great school there, you know.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Now, now, full disclosure. You taught in St Mary's Boys National School at Rathfarnham, where I was very lucky to be a pupil myself for my primary school years. And I suppose coming up you had great lads like Jim Maloy, principal there, donald Lamorra, who was principal there, a leading light and I suppose a hand on all our shoulders was the great Fintan Walsh. Now Fintan is known all over, all over Ireland, but he may not be known by some. He passed away recently. He had a magnificent send off, as we should have. A great man like himself, an educator to the very essence of the word educator, both a larger than life figure. So when you started in Mary's and Fintan was there teaching, you know what were the key things you learned from Fintan.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Where do you start? This is suppose we have an educational edge, isn't it?

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yes, yes, somewhere in there.

Cormac O'Farrell:

We could just talk about Fintan for hours and hours and hours but it wouldn't be all educational, but it would be all very entertaining. You know, yeah, I went in there and actually you mentioned Donald Lamorra, who Donald Lamorra just took over as principal, kind of February, march, the school year, and I joined the ball in September. I was his first ever appointment and he used to say to him time and time again he says Donald Lamorra was your first appointment. After that it was down here. Donald Lamorra was smiling at that.

Cormac O'Farrell:

But yeah, you know, you knew Mr Walsh, you knew Fintan from around, you know, but got to know him and remember the me first thing there. You know my first term there, if you like. I ran a football team with him, you know, and like he was showing me the way, you know, and kind of different small teams. And I remember one time when he first came I felt it was running through against a semi-final and he was like Jesus put him down, so he's out under his breath. But Fintan heard it and kind of did not say that Although he was competitive, a real sportsman, a must-read sportsman, he had that side to him too. He did things the right way, you know, and like every second start, we can do some laugh about something you know, and I was remembering this one's fresh in your mind because I was telling it recently.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I was feeling that we got some notion in that it had something around it that the circus wanted to come in and do a demonstration of some of the max to sell tickets for the show down the road. You know, and would we let the circus in? You know, and there was a few on the staff there oh no, the way they treat animals, we couldn't let them in. There was a very no, we can't be letting that in. You know. The discussion ended anyway and then Fintan came up talking about who's going to clean up after the elephant. That's a sample of what you know. And the other thing was you know where state safe was on. You know, are you doing the state safe? And it's going to start, but you do it.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

They would do the state safe you know you have to do the state safe. They wouldn't do the state safe. I wouldn't say it's.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Fintan, you know, for something about it I tell them to put the helmets on before they go out and sing for them. The other thing was the planning. You know how was the planning going on, fintan? And he says, when we see the staples in the middle of the geography book, sometimes in January, I know I'm on track.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's right. Get the staples by.

Cormac O'Farrell:

January he was so well known, there was an inspector at the use commens of school and him and like a man from Clare some people that know me maybe we went to whom talking to him and he came in and like I remember I did my dip under this inspector. He'd be wary enough of him, you know, but I remember sitting down with him to one time and kind of you ever had him inspecting you.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

He came in one day.

Cormac O'Farrell:

He says he came over to me and asked me about some fellow that hold for Clare back in the day. You know that was it. He'd get away with it, you know. Oh, he was a charmer. Yeah, he was.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I loved him. I'm sure everyone loved him. He's a great guy but a bit like Fintan, you Cormac O'Farrell, kind of all these interests as well sport, amateur, dramatics is a big grá. And you're like how did you get into this? Why did you get into us? Because really, in teaching you know we are acting all day, so I suppose you had a penchant for it from the start.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, I mean, you know kind of.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I suppose they always had an interest goal. Parents came and just mentioned them again. They were always loved at around and stuff and used to encourage us, got to plays and brought us to plays and stuff. So there was always day in the background. You know, when I started teaching, like when I went back, we had a great lecturer in Reno and she used to say you know Shakespeare, when you're all to play, he didn't mean to sit in the classroom reading it, we meant to act it. So we used to stand up in the classroom there and we were reading scripts but we acted out and, like it was, you've had to exit stage left, you have to exit stage left.

Cormac O'Farrell:

So there was a fair bit of that going on in college. You know we weren't just reading plays or acting plays, although to act on them. We didn't put them on. We did put on a musical of Joseph back in the day. But then when it came out like just there was a drama society going on down in a body of bones and inns and John Joseph Solomon, another great educator, he kind of said to me would you be interested in getting involved? He was pushing and pushing and pushing.

Cormac O'Farrell:

So there was a big cast play, drama, dinesh, and because it was tough, I was asked to be a guard. So I remember it was just to give in the second act for a bit of a small part. But I always remember standing behind the stage, you know, raising my entrance, you know, looking at some of the backstage hoarding and saying, how did I let John Joseph Solomon get me into this? But I went on, flew through my lines, came off again. It was a start. And then I was looking off at the time of the group. They were progressing and they were doing harder stuff. I got a few challenging roles and stuff and you can really get into it, you know. And it's a release of the Alan Smith show. I mean people ask me we're allowed to direct and stuff I wouldn't really. It's just, you know, get apart, get to grips with it, get another guy, you know, see what's needed. You know, and it's a challenge, it's work, it is work, you know.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, but are you completely lost in it? Then when you're doing it, when you're performing, you know you're not thinking about schooling, you're not thinking about the problems you have in the school between a teaching principle. You've got classes, you've got plumbers, you've got inspectors. You're on that, you had it. When you're on the stage, even when you're practicing a little longer from and nothing's there other than the act.

Cormac O'Farrell:

If you're the start coming in, you won't be doing as well, you know. But it is a complete release, you know, and you can just get absorbed in the whole thing. For it. It's great being somebody, you know, I don't know how people do it full time, you know, because we rehearse for two or three months, put on the show four nights, take down the stage on the Sunday morning and wait. That stage might not be as I forgot. Yeah, you know, I did one day last November, I don't know if I can say it loudly, oh, so you did that again. Oh, my son's play actor Miller, yes, which was a bit of a risk, for because we've done a lot of stuff. You know, we've done the show on the cases with the New York Beacons. We've done a lot of stuff that people would expect, you know, in an Irish theatre group, an amateur theatre group, but that was a bit of a departure and it was just a guy who was directing and he wanted to do it. He's retired now as our director and he was a great guy. Taught me how to play Joe Carney as an actor. All my sons was a bit of a risk because it's a host World War II.

Cormac O'Farrell:

American story setting somewhere in the Midwest. You know, I met a fella who's kind of a father who has two sons. One of the sons hasn't gone back from the Moor the motor's pointing at me, you know. So we had to do American accents, you know, and one person asked me what part of America was your accent from? And he says all over, you know. But you know, as I say, it was a bit of a risk. There's one guy who was in the club and he's a guy who goes to support everything in the club, A professional male man.

Cormac O'Farrell:

This man, some people might not know what I'm talking about, but he goes to all those clubs to support the show, you know. But at the same time he cast a critical eye, you know, and I'd ask him and say, well, what did you think? And most of the time they come and they get us, you weren't the worst of them, you know, which I think is a comment.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I was very interested to see what he think of this, because it wouldn't necessarily be. You know he wouldn't. But it wasn't a John B Keane, it wasn't a Sean O'Casey, it wasn't a Brian Freel, it was a bit of a departure. And he came up to me after a match and kind of says that was really good, that was really good, I really enjoyed that and that kind of that took the box for me. There you go, we took a risk, it went well and paid off.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So do you think it feeds back into, then your day job? So you have this interest of amateur emallics. You're regularly an, often valve for chunks of a few months during the year. How does that feed back into your school life?

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of great. The timing is right in one way, because you know we could be doing the show on November. You start back the first week of September and you're doing a show on March. You go back to first week after Christmas, so it all falls into place. You know you're busy for that couple of months within the school year. We were doing what you're in the summer. You know, and like you mean, you talk to the children too, like you know, like the older children weren't you know 15, 16 class, and you'd be telling them you'd be doing it.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know like I would share with them. You know it's doing a show and it was rehearsing last night and we're doing the show tonight. You know when it's on. You know, and you might even show them a clip, but on the phone, something like that. You know they get a bit of a giggle at it. You know we do Christmas plays. We do stuff like that in school, you know so. You know you try to make it as a professional, but as close to the real thing. You know you're doing an activity player or something or whatever it is. You try to make it as close to the real thing as you can for the children, like telling them to break a leg, tell them to speak out to the audience. Don't put your head down, don't turn your back on the audience.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You know those little things you know and you know you're going to feed into your ability to speak in front of parents or to speak at staff meetings, because it gives you a bit of a confidence. You know I'm thinking of if there's people listening into this now and their teachers or their principals or their post-holders or whatever. And from time to time you have to stand up and talk to parents and it can be a tricky thing to talk to adults teachers. You know they stand up for their kids all day, every day, and not a bother. Yeah, having me once in the club I had to stand up. I was very used to talking to adults but when I stood up for my peers I got quite nervous. I guess for teachers that could be there. Does the amateur dramatics help in that bit of confidence in standing up and talking to adults?

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, I don't have a huge problem with that.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I wouldn't have had it before to be able to do the dramatics. You know I'd be fair, like I'd have done a little bit of a you know kind of train. And then if you're like in that, when you're talking to other people, you know they do want to hear what you want to say. There's little things you would have been told over the years. Tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them and then tell them what you're told and I kind of stick to those things and I'll tell the parents and stuff. You know it probably does help.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Tell them what you're going to tell them tell them and then tell them what you're going to tell them. Like that, I think.

Cormac O'Farrell:

The new parents meeting is the thing that, even with Cole, we're going to keep going. You know we split it up into smaller groups, you know. But you know you can be in the new parents. They've been at home with the kids for four or five years. They'll come into the big school and you tell them, you know this is what's going to happen in September. You tell them, you know this is your child's time in school. Go to all the notes and bolts and your questions and answers. Offer questions and answers.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

And although now, as a teaching principal, you're generally up in the senior end of the school, you're in this class. How do you ensure that you do talk to those kids coming in and those parents coming in, because I suppose they're your key people, maybe the 50s class they're listening to you and looking at you. The new people in you know they're the parents who are feeling nervous because they're leaving their most precious thing in the world into a short ranger and the kids themselves are all a goblet of excitement. So throughout that year, how do you maintain the teaching principle, contact with all of them.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Well, I would you know the way the school is. You know we start at 10 to 9, children are supervised on the air from 10 to 9, just 10 minutes, and some schools do it longer, but I'm on the air for those 10 minutes.

Cormac O'Farrell:

So, as far as I'm concerned, my school day starts the latest, it starts at 20 to 9, and I'm in the air there when the children are coming in, you know. So I do see them all. You know, and you know you would be, you'd be touching base with the junior and the teacher. What's that person's first name? Again, we have 85 children with 61 families. You know, it's not that many to learn off in some of the books and some of you have had them again and again and again. So you kind of get to know them and there's, you know, in your head they're brand new parents.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know, david fell in first class. David only fifth, you know, they kind of know, you know, and we have a lot of families as well, you know, which could confuse them. You know, we've we've we've tensioned and we're all related. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, there'd be five different families. You know two, two and one of them, you know, and like, there's a lot of that you know. But you kind of get to know them, you know. And you know the cars.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You know the car, the grandparents day, then you have not many of them because of so many families we have.

Cormac O'Farrell:

we unlike we have grandparents who've been to the school. Yeah, parents and they. You know I've acted as children in the school and they who's parents. I thought it was.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

It's a lovely thing in a community, it is For kids to go up where their parents went to school, where their grandparents went to school, to have those kind of roots. That's what gives you the wings to go off. Yeah, and because you're so sure, and what?

Cormac O'Farrell:

you came from. Yeah, no, I'm blessed where I am. Like you know, it's, it's. It's a unique thing in that it's a Dublin school. We are in Dublin, but it's rural. Yes, you know, it's just, it's just beyond talent there. Yes, it's within the lesson and, like their, their board, their children, their dogs, yes, and are they very much dogs?

Cormac O'Farrell:

now in British. They are, yeah, but they still they don't go much beyond the here. They come in the Dublin at the other time. Like I do, I try to on an annual basis, bring 156 into town for a head, go into the arc. I go into the all there and they're the dead zoo.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yes, as one fella said to me one time, there was a past pupil and he was going in the middle of work for me, you know, over the summer or something, and there was some documentary about a renovation to the dead zoo Been on a couple of months before. And that's how far did you see that thing on the dead zoo the other night. He says, yeah, yeah, you're a great man for the dead zoo. You went to town, you know, and like you're doing half an hour, you know you have to book it on. Now it's going to be. You know there's a time. You just arrive in, you do the dead zoo half an hour and, like you're in town, you go into it. You know it's a great resource and it's a great way to teach about the vaccine more on it. You know, the dead zoo.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

The, the, the, what you got to visit the doll air in our fantastic as well and, in fairness to the, our politicians, they're very accessible. Other countries they never get to see the politicians. I remember once we were I had to slew them queuing up outside the doll air and David and ours happened and they just visit. We're on our way out and they just visited doll air and had been into the shine and they got to sit down those seats and they were thrilled. And who do we need from the ball? David, and that's what he was bringing it with them and of course he's wearing the three piece suit and the chain with the watch and the whole thing. I've got morning children and they were blown away, but he was just so very fortunate.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

And a lot of our politicians are teachers.

Cormac O'Farrell:

And yet we have a past people's atity, you know, and she's very good to us. She, she was out of school regular, she comes out all the time. I think I had a one with a fair there, last of which came out. Yeah, and she, she, she helped us get a bit of funding for a musical instruments one and their last year, where she's very, very supportive and you know she's committed, before the last election she came in and talked to the children and talks to them about the importance of elections and democracy and, you know, and making a difference, making a change.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know it was funny, like I did a summer course there this year, best one we've done in a long time, inside Minister House, active citizenship and student council, and we set it up this year. You know, in school it's one of the pluses for this year. It's a 3D making it. Yeah, Something I'm very happy about, you know, getting this school here. You know, when I was in doing the course, you were going to be coming across the, the car park one day on the emmer, you know, coming across the. So what are you doing here? You're doing something like citizenship here. You know I'd say next time she's in she'll want to meet the student council.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, you know and we are going in. We are going in in April, I think, and she's organizing the first night.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

And so you set up a student council on foot of doing that summer course. Yes, and tell me about student councils. The worthwhile doing is it? Yeah, I mean, you hear about student voice, student voice student voice.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, well, that's. It was very much coming from that. It's coming from that, you know. Yeah, it was something that I've known about for years and it's most of this, most of this, most of this. We tried to get something going a couple of years back but at the time I was fairly new as a principal and you know managing your time. I got a release date once a week now. Yeah, brilliant, thank you.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You realize that there was a time when you'd be using that to kind of make sure the boilers are right or stuff around the place. But I've been using it more in the last couple of years. I use it more for in-school managing meetings, student council meetings, getting around to the children, that kind of thing, more child-centered stuff. So student council is perfect. We have our meetings once a month. It's always going to be a Friday so I can sit down and watch. The one kind of negative thing about it is I'm the teacher facilitator. The principal shouldn't be the future facilitator, because they should be going back to the principal to check something via the teacher.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's the small thing, but it's the first one, but it is.

Cormac O'Farrell:

And we started off. We had our elections. There was one or two children who were a bit disappointed up to school because there was one girl in sixth class. She went first, she didn't get it. She never got another chance. There was someone in fifth class might get another chance and down to school anyway. But we had the elections formed and we've had four things at this time.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

First, I know, and she's working in a Deshband, one school and the kids in one kid from each class is chosen each week across the floor, tates, you know. But they make great progress or whatever it is, they get either a homework, pass something with a tree box or they can have a hot chocolate with the principal and the hardest choice in the place, will pick a hot chocolate with the principal. And it's sitting there having a hot chocolate with the principal.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

And they do it once or twice or three times, you know? Yeah, I heard it was the first one.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You had to buy a raffle ticket or something, and the prize was you have to be principal for a day. Yeah, no yeah, and apparently apparently it works. You know, I'm not going to go near the finance. Yeah, yeah yeah. If you go near the finance, there's nothing there, that's true.

Cormac O'Farrell:

The student council is great. You know, initially I'm like there's TV problems, like you know. If I haven't seen it, I've been skating there with a big list of things you want to get done. You know. That's fine, you know, and you just have to explain. You know, well, we might do one or two of them this week and we'll come back next month and they're realising what they can achieve, what they can't achieve, and you do, doctor, a small bit, like you know, to make sure that that can happen. We make sure the student council gets credit for it yeah, yeah, yeah so we've a movie coming up now.

Cormac O'Farrell:

We did it last year, rob, rob the idea from another school.

Cormac O'Farrell:

you know they come back at seven o'clock and play the evening and they get you know for a fire or a fun drive, you know, and we on the interactive white board, you know it's dark, which is great, and you can bring their cuddly toys and all the crack. Yeah, they can. Yeah, and they did dress up as in the Jammer's Lounge, you know. They're looking to see if they do it again this year, but that has to be agreed by the student council blah, blah, blah.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You know I'll just say it, but it's great. Yeah, yeah, they get it. They'll taste for and, as you said, they get taste for what can be achieved.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, yeah, and that's great learning about, yeah, and I mean, and they've had to vote on things as well, you know, and one of them suggested we get badges for the student council and someone that says we're not supposed to be showing off, and maybe the other boys and girls wouldn't like that, so they had to put back and talk to their peers and they let them come back and have a vote, and it was a belief that they would get the badges, you know, and yeah, so it's great.

Cormac O'Farrell:

It's really great you know, and of course people didn't like to mean that there's a way, isn't that they think they want to take over to school. You know principle they're. You know teachers. We don't want a student council to be running the place.

Cormac O'Farrell:

It's not that they get to they get to realize the limitations fairly quickly you know, or you know what it's all about, and it's about letting the process and you know, you come with an idea. You discuss it pros and cons. Do we need to live more? Yeah, it costs money. Yeah, it's great. It's great, really good.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So just on the kids there and the children's voice. And that question I often ask people on this podcast is what do you think children need most from school, so the right years of the primary school with you, what do they need most?

Cormac O'Farrell:

I'd be a bit of a traditionalist in some respects. You know that they need to learn to read and write and do their maths you know there's other things that we could teach.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know and like have a broad mind of your life. You know that they get the arts and they get the sport or the P or whatever. You know that they come out. They come out with basic abilities, you know. But you know you have to be able to use them in the right way to you know. Primarily that's what we're there for, but as we're doing that, we can do it in a certain way to ensure that they're you know our archery school rules are safe, happy and caring. You know that they can do things safely, that they're happy doing things and that they care for little people and care for the environment. You know that's what I like to play across.

Cormac O'Farrell:

So reading, writing, maths, safe, happy, caring, nice, they're six words. Yeah, they need basics. They do need basics and I mean, you know, with technology and stuff. You know like I guess that was somebody the other day like why would you stand right? And you know and it's a good question, because when I was the last time you hand wrote something in your knees and never writing. You don't do it. You're chatting a few things and using Q3, use a phone. It could become a thing of the past, but I still think there's a value in it. Maybe we won't be teaching it the same way. We'll always have to teach some form of writing.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Well, I would have seemed to some part of read some form of reading, Kinetic learning and writing something down. Definitely there's power in it. I know we're both the generation where everything was written and everything was touched. You know your books and your pages and your copybooks. We're definitely moving somewhat away from it, but you still have the value of that kinetic learning. Sure, when you're writing something down, it's more than just the writing it down, it's all parts of your body that are involved. Yeah, when you're concentrating on what you're, writing.

Cormac O'Farrell:

It's just a thing of the good, a standardized mass test. You know you rarely have to write it yourself. You might as well do something in the road for a cutting, but a lot of it's there for you, you know, and that's scale of kind of. You know it's not okay that's problem, taken from here to there, made to be and writing it out. You know you won't always have a calculator. You won't. You probably will do you know?

Cormac O'Farrell:

you still need that kind of tactile thing where you're actually working something yourself. There's other ways of doing things now with technology, but I think you need that basic too. You need to know how it works.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You have to go to the shallow to get to the deep? Yeah, and would you have a capability around the mental maths or the all this other stuff? It speeds up the process of thinking outside the box. It speeds up the process of critical thinking. It speeds up the process of analysis and getting to the and answer that you need. You know you need to have that. I remember Johnny Brennan was a great man for teaching maths. He said all they're at the tables there last. Without the tables they're not.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I remember him doing long division there. You learn from the children and stuff. You know was doing long division there a couple of weeks back and this one and she'd be a clever little one, you know now she's great at maths, she's a slext-of-can, a real good writer and a struggle the maths she's spot on, you know, and she's doing long division. She turns around and says you don't actually do any dividing here, like you're multiplying and adding and you're subtracting, but you're not doing any dividing. And she's right. There you go. You don't really do any dividing in long division. You do multiplication and you do subtraction, subtraction.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

As we're progressing through this. Now, one thing that's done on me is we haven't yet talked about sport. Sure, and I know it's about passion in your life. We both share a passion for hurling and football and soccer and rugby, but recently I was at a. I was at a juvenile boxing tournament supporting a friend of mine and who turned up? What were you doing at a juvenile boxing?

Cormac O'Farrell:

tournament. Yeah, well, I did the small bit of boxing, I suppose. Then you go to it. It was actually true, good points, but didn't like getting hit. You know, none of us did. And then you know there was a box of club open, very bold, and it was quite vibrant at one time, very bold in the one time Sentigate, the Olympics in 1980. Sean Dulles was his name. They don't have a crack in him. I mean, someone say he got there because the Americans boycott it, you know was Moscow. But I would say that he got there, he got there you know he got there.

Cormac O'Farrell:

He got there. Well, my father was very much involved in that boxing club and it kind of faded away, came back and faded away. Anyway, in one reincarnation I got back involved and I was a young Londoners and there was a few young guys in there, it was three or four of us there. We were running for a couple of years, you know. So I couldn't get a bit of coaching. He was there.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I always loved the coaching in the boxing because the boxing, like you know, it's three minutes and then he's back in the corner or she's back in the corner. She's there back in the corner and you have a minute and that's going to be three minutes more and go back in it and the three minutes more and go back and like, as a coach, you're very involved for the nine, 11 minutes, whatever it is. You know more and more, like you know a good football team do you. We'll come and I'll say you're trying to get away with me, do it. You know, if you're shouting an arm down with a sideline on a Sunday, you haven't done your work on a Tuesday and Thursday.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's certainly not a problem.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I was at a match last Sunday and I was shouting an arm on a sideline. But that's because you know you haven't done. You've done something. You've done something less during the week. If you have to do that, you know they're not ready, whereas boxing they have to be ready because if they're not ready they're going to get hurt and you know when you have a responsibility to them, like there's something about boxing as well, there's a romance about it and I know there's a lot of UFC stuff. There are other bavarian and other kind of slagging and other kind of trash talk before and other ways.

Cormac O'Farrell:

There used to be a little bit of that in boxing. You know it's faded away because the UFC has taken over. It's great because fellas are just getting on with fight me Twitter. Now it's not across the board now. There's still a little bit too much of it for me like it.

Cormac O'Farrell:

But as a sport it's like it's the simplest sport. You know he hit him and I hit him back. There's no implement just to bring a little bit of education back into it. But from a coaching perspective, you see, fellas, you know, and they booked that club and can I spare? Can I spare? Can I spare. You wouldn't rarely put them in too early, you know, but some fellow going to be too early to get a clatter and you never see him again. It wasn't what he expected. But you see, the odd fella who'd be nervous it was a bit of a battle Be going to be nervous, but he gets through it and he grows and you can see that. I did something I was afraid to do Because it isn't a scary aspect. You're in there in your own. You know it's great that that's the purest of sports.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I think there's so much to it in your tear with your hands, and it's you know, I think the last, particularly in the last decade or so, it has thrown up a very articulate sports people, when you see the like of the fellas they have and the girls they have and how well they can speak and they're on RTE, and I mean post fight now, I mean doing analysis and all that. Yeah, andy Lee and all these things, yeah, so we're able to talk and leave it low and crazy. And Kelly Harden brilliant, yeah, so eloquent. We're kind of looking at that.

Cormac O'Farrell:

It's a cross really well, there's a trash talk. So my experience, 99% of fellas that don't have up each other and they're covered by that, yes, you know there's. No, there's great sportsmanship, you know it's a great sport like that. It teaches a discipline you can't hide. You know there's a lucky punch happens once a million, you know. You know generally the best box out, we know.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I suppose your values there that would be echoed in your teaching and that you honesty outside your comfort zone. You got coaching, you got young people. You know really this is something, this is a pattern that's running through what you're doing.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, I'm not coaching the box anymore, but it's. It's something that I was telling you like I don't love to go back to it. You know, yeah, it's a, it is a huge thing and I know people are involved and they're it's three or four days a week commitment and it's it's 10 11 months a year. You know it's a. You have to avoid, unfortunately, and like where, where I spent you at that tournament. You know, I know a couple of guys running that club and the commitment I get in this phenomenon. They really have to be an origin of the brilliant people, yeah, and the support to get from our open national series talks.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Is that right? There's no such thing as a draw on amateur boxing. No, there was another draw that afternoon. You know just fell as a boxing for the first time and you want to give them positive experience up and the winner. That is a draw, you know, and everyone goes home and it's great, absolutely.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

But the pointy at your hobbyist.

Cormac O'Farrell:

It could be the sort you know at a match probably. You know it could well get a match. I'm not playing anymore. Needless to say, just to you know, if you're in the team you can match a tight match. You know I love that. You know passion, yeah. When it's in the, you know it's a battle. You know on the ring, the trucks, but you know I mean I'm very happy in the classroom too.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know I did work for a couple of years and so it's like you know, I'm working now but I did work in the industry, so we say, yeah, or I did work first for a couple of years, and we use, we use Queen on Monday morning, same old Monday morning. You know this bit of paper that's outside of the desk. You know whereas a classroom is a lovely place to go on a Monday morning. And you go in and you meet the children and they want to tell you what they did at the weekend. And you'll tell them what you did again. You build a rapport with them and then you get down to the work and you know getting the routine and the schools provide routine, obviously that as well, you know the greatest deal you'll ever have in front of you. He wants his Irish first, and then his maths and then his English. And you know we do art on a Thursday, you know. And what we do on our Wednesday for you know. You know, children love routine.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I think we all do, and you know I am very, very happy with that.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Every parent, but the first or second of January you'll tell you that Give me the routine and normality.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Exactly, and I mean it's. I mean, if you ask me like I'm a teaching principal, you've been like a principalship. Do you like the teaching? I prefer the teaching. You know. Yes, principalship can be a taxing at times it's trying, yeah, whereas the teaching, you know if it's, if it's taxing, you know, maybe you have to ask yourself today, preparing, you know, or you know, I mean it's it, it's up to you to make it. On taxing.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

It is teaching. Echo the things in your personal life on thinking, creativity, joy, involvement, passion, community all those things seem to be in your life outside of the school and that's what teaching does. Yeah, well, I mean that freedom and joy of teaching that think and watch would have personified. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I mean, like I hate to be a full time football coach? Yeah, Because you wouldn't get to do art, you wouldn't get to read the book with the children, you know you wouldn't get to do a bit of maths. I love doing all those things, you know. Just, the variation in the primary school curriculum is great. You get to do all these things. You know you're not, you're not a one trick pony as a.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You have to be a Renaissance man, you know. You know an extra set in that time. You know teachers, primary school teachers. You have to be a Renaissance man, you know you have to be a Renaissance woman, but Renaissance man, yes, everything. You know like. You get teachers who'll never kick a football, but they're brilliant artists, they're brilliant musicians, you know. Whereas you know the primary school, it gives you a sculptor, so much that you can bring to the children. You know you might do something. You might teach them a song and then they were singing again. Or you might hear that the following summer. This happened to me when I taught the cobbler. You know, make him a glancy tummy, make him the cobbler. Do you know what I said?

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

No.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Ah, you do. Are we loosing on podcasts? You go, you do not? Well, my name is Dick Derby. Oh, a coupler. Yeah, I served with time at the Alton and he had a car set with me in twing oven. In twing oven, I don't know, he's kind of someone to show.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, he's missing the train.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Yeah, but I taught that to a class. They loved us. Boys, all boys, yes, they loved us, they loved us. And the following that was May, june, whatever. And the following September, charles Farah comes up to me. My uncle sang a song down at family holiday down in Therian, the good one, and it was the coupler. Where did you learn that? Well, mr Farah taught me that. So you know, that was great, that was brilliant. How do we get down to the coupler?

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

It reminds me of a guy who was a teacher and he was on his dead bed and there was a few lads that he taught sitting around and he talked with other lads what song do you want? And I think he taught them James Conley or something. So they all sang James Conley. I wonder, lads wasn't singing at all. And he says why aren't you singing? Wasn't in that day, sir, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Cormac, each week we ask somebody an anonymous question. So a previous person has been interviewed. We've given you a question to ask somebody who's coming in. So what I ask you is what sustains you? So you've got all these challenges in your life which you enjoy and you're fulfilled and you're full to the brim with it? Obviously, I can see that here, but you know that isn't done without something sustaining you. What sustains you? What keeps Cormac or Farrell plugging away every day? Good, question.

Cormac O'Farrell:

You know I enjoy what I do. You know, the teacher, I enjoy what I do. I prefer being busy than not busy. You know, and you know I kind of was due to do a thing there Sunday weekend. I was cancelled and as a result, I ended up singing on Sunday night and watching the stars. I was watching the stars, I was watching them in ten minutes.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

No, I know why I'm busy.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Exactly, that's it. That's pretty much it, farrell, I like being busy. You know there's any calendar to get with the little. You know, fray proper about the one. Yes, yes, the ones that were too busy to tell you they're too busy. Well, there you go, but I try to keep busy, yeah, yeah, then you can say no to people when they ask you do things.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, I'm flat out. One last question before we wind up what's the bravest thing you've ever done in your career?

Cormac O'Farrell:

Probably taking the step to go back. After working five or six years, you know To say this is for me.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I was going to go to.

Cormac O'Farrell:

That was pre-career. You know in summer In your teaching career what's the bravest thing you've done? I?

Cormac O'Farrell:

suppose going through the apprenticeship, just like you know. I wanted to say on the internship, you know, yeah, leaving a school you're happy in, yeah, yeah, pretty much so. Yeah, and a great school, a great place, you know, and just to take it on yourself, you know. So, yeah, it's probably that, yeah, yeah, what do you recommend? Go for apprenticeship. I'm open-minded about that, you know there's some very rewarding aspects to it.

Cormac O'Farrell:

I rarely I walk in principle, shall we say. It doesn't mean it's teaching and I be wary of that myself. You know, when I'm driving in in the morning I'm not aware of the teaching of the apprenticeship. You would want to make sure you want it, you know. A bit like teaching itself, yeah, but I think you know there's more day-to-day rewards in the teaching, you know, you know. I mean, you know, overall, after a school year you can go back and say that year went well or whatever. It was not a cause of fear, you know, it was a, you know, a little thing that I just didn't remember my staff there Just at the end of last year was just to put down on the postage two or three posts. One or two teams went well this year, all right. One thing that you're happy with is going to the next year. They all did it at the postage. You know, one of the SNAs are all corn work. Ah, that's a lot of new art.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Oh, that's a lot, yeah, yeah. Well Cormac on that , then we'll finish. I'd say , I thought so. I was just saying one last thing.

Cormac O'Farrell:

One last thing. I was telling someone I was coming here today. I was like what's that? My My life is made a hell of a lot easier because I had the best secretary in my entire life and she just has a grasp of the place. She's a lovely manner about her, she knows exactly what I need. She asks me how this went by and I've probably given out much more about the role of principalship and I haven't given out two more.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I've had my reservations about it, but I'm tired.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Because that's the thing about a smaller school. Just to finish out with that, and I found it from coming from, I'm not going to say Mary's Trafford, yeah, but the bigger school, the bigger schools, you know, teachers do go through their things, whereas in a smaller school, teachers have to do more. Yes, because I remember like we used to book tours to the secretary, couldn't we think, yeah, and we still did that a little bit.

Cormac O'Farrell:

In my school. Most of my staff were trousers, okay, for example. You know if they want to get something, they've got to get themselves. And you know, yeah, I'm lucky, that way my staff will do that. You know they'll get a bit of a blow about them to look after things themselves.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Well, I visited the school and it's very apparent that there's a right buzz in the place. Yeah, yeah, and you're lucky.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Smaller the busier, I like to say.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, well, go to me and Margaret, come on in.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Come on in.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Join us next week for another episode of Teachers Themselves and if you're enjoying this season, go back and find episodes from season one all around CPD. Don't forget to hit that bell, like and subscribe, leave us a review and share it with colleagues and friends. We want to hear from you. Your feedback informs the show, so look out for the episode, questions and polls. You can follow us across our social media channels Instagram, twitter, linkedin, facebook. The links are in the show notes. If you have any thoughts on today's episode or suggestions for future topics, email Zita here at zr obinson@ DWEC. ie. Zita is at . Oh, and, as always, don't forget to book your CPD. Go to our website, dwec. ie. That's DWEC. ie Have a great week. Slán Tamaill.

Cormac O'Farrell:

Thank you.

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