Teachers Themselves

Believing in Yourself - An Educational Odyssey with Finbarr Hurley

• Dublin West Education Support Centre • Season 2 • Episode 1

Share episode

Send us a text

Introducing Finbarr Hurley, a visionary in the realm of primary education. Join us as he shares his story of growth from the fields of West Cork to the bustling classrooms of Qatar. Every educator has a tale, but not every tale weaves through the multicultural tapestry of European schools and leads to the construction of a diverse educational community. Finbarr's narrative is one of passion and perseverance.

Finbarr Hurley's career is a testament to the adaptability and innovation required in the modern educational landscape. As he recounts the growth of a small European school into a bustling hub for 1400 students, you'll gain insights into the harmonisation of pedagogical approaches, the significance of cultural diversity in the classroom, and the unexpected twists and opportunities in the career of a dedicated educator.
 
Throughout this episode, Finbarr’s dedication to the realm of education is apparent. His philosophy is one based on relationships, community, and authenticity. He discusses the empowerment of teachers through self-belief and the crucial role of traditional education pillars in an age where artificial intelligence is rapidly advancing. Finbarr's inspiring account is not just a dialogue on educational leadership — it's a celebration of the joy found in shaping the minds of future leaders and the simple pleasures that enrich life beyond the school gates. Finbarr is very definitely making a significant contribution to the education system underpinned by his empowering message to always believe in yourself. 

Join us for a conversation that promises to enlighten and inspire, no matter where you stand on the educational spectrum.

Don’t forget to like and subscribe, leave us a review and share it with colleagues and friends! Your feedback informs the show.

You can follow us across our social media channels –

Instagram

Twitter

LinkedIn

Facebook

If you have any thoughts on our episodes, or suggestions for future topics, email Zita at zrobinson@dwec.ie
Or take a minute to give us your feedback: Listener Feedback

Oh – and don’t forget to book that CPD – dwec.ie

Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre produced by Zita Robinson.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Welcome to the Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, Ultan Mac Mathúna. This podcast is brought to you by Dublin West Education Centre. We're located in the grounds of TU D Tallaght, serving and supporting the school communities of West Dublin and beyond. Welcome to season two of Teachers Themselves. Episodes this season will feature informal chats with some of the experienced, dedicated educators who are working in Irish schools and the broader education sector. People who are making a big difference to the world of education in Ireland.

Finbarr Hurley:

Career is where I put all my energies, because I love what I do. You know, I absolutely love it. I suppose that brings me joy, that brings me happiness to see that hopefully I'm making a contribution.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Joining us on the podcast today is Finbarr Hurley. Finbarr, a native of Cork, is a graduate of Mary Immaculate College. He has over 30 years experience in primary education, with a varied, vast array of experience. He's a primary leadership coordinator with Oide. He's been a principal in Douglas in Cork. He's been a principal in schools in Europe, both in Brussels and in Karlsruhe in Germany. He's currently on the board of directors of IPPN. He has facilitated seminars the length and breadth of the country with Oide and also with the IPPN Principals Conference and, most importantly, like all people from Cork will tell you, he's from Cork. So in the interest of including all in this podcast, I've made sure to include some Cork people. So you're the second Cork person to be interviewed for our podcast, Finbarr.

Finbarr Hurley:

Very inclusive, and that's the way to go.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So tell me, how did Cork make you Finbarr? Because I suppose where we're all from does make us. How did Cork make Finbarr Hurley?

Finbarr Hurley:

I grew up in a very rural background. I'm from West Cork. I saw between Bantry and Scibereen out, the middle of the countryside and literally, I suppose, if I think back on, my youth and my childhood school was in the local community. It's a very rural community. We'd have four teachers' school and I wouldn't even call it a village. My grandmother owned the shop next door. The church was across the road and there was maybe around eight or 10 houses and I suppose we had freedom.

Finbarr Hurley:

You get up in the morning, go to school, but the weekends and holidays we'd leave home at eight in the morning and you'd hear all the mothers roaring Lodge, come home, you need to eat and we'd make our way back home from wherever we were and go out again. So we spent our time, I suppose, outside. I suppose problems having building our resilience, getting on with each other, having the arguments with the pals and then starting them out ourselves. You know, no one else got involved and I suppose that has stood to me as time went on. I suppose I was a quite introverted child and I would still consider myself an introvert, an introverted extrovert, and people find that hard to believe. I do enjoy talking to people, but I suppose my natural state is that introverted sort of person and I suppose just growing up I had opportunities, I suppose, to dip my toe in the water and to start to develop myself, push myself outside my boundaries, and I suppose that's something I would have continued to do my whole life.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

And he mentioned the phrase ambivert and I thought it was good, because you know there are some people who would be, you know, maybe happy to sit back in a group but then, when called upon, can stand up and deliver to a room full of 200 people. There are people who jump onto a stage, entertain people for, you know, half an hour, inform them for half an hour or whatever it is, and then when they go back afterwards to the dining room or whatever, they just want to sit and be quiet or be left alone, even so yeah, that's it.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I thought the phrase was good, ambivert.

Finbarr Hurley:

Yeah, that's my natural state, you know, and I suppose I have three sisters and they're quite extroverted, so I hope it's always the really quiet one of the family. And again, put me in front of people or with people, I have no problem At the stage, I don't get nervous, I really enjoy it. But I suppose my natural state would be you know, I like time to myself, I like my own space and everything like that.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So you had three sisters, I'd say, you didn't get a word in.

Finbarr Hurley:

I didn't. I'm the eldest, but it would come across, you would think, and even to this day you'd still think I'm the youngest of the four of us, like you know, because they're always looking out for me and looking after me and making sure that I'm okay, and it's amazing.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Isn't it amazing? With our siblings, regardless of our age, we do revert to how we were, you know when we were younger.

Finbarr Hurley:

It's extraordinary. Yeah, it's actually. It's fascinating just being at home, especially Christmas, I suppose, at the time when we're always at home together and usually we're between three and five days there, but definitely when it gets to day four, we've reverted to roles. You know as to how we were when we were kids. It's fascinating, fascinating.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So you left Cork and you went up to Limerick, to Mary I. You wanted to be a teacher.

Finbarr Hurley:

I wanted to be a teacher my whole life. It's all I ever wanted to do and it was actually very interesting at school, like I wouldn't be, let's say, the most intelligent, and I really had to work hard, you know, to get my leaving's urgent to do well over. I put a huge amount of work and effort into it and I suppose I would have been first in my family to have an opportunity to go to third level and I was offered was law and European studies in UCC as well. You know, at that time the CAO came up first and you got the law and European studies and you were still waiting for the call, as it was the time to marry and because that was not on the CAO forum. And not only did you have to have your leaving search, you had to go for your interview, your Irish exam and your music exam and I wasn't accepting UCC. And my mother she didn't talk to me for three weeks when I accepted Mary, because at the time there was a crisis in teaching, that there was a surplus of teachers, couldn't get a job, and she was there. What in God's name are you doing? You go to UCC, you know, become a lawyer and you're deciding to go teaching, but all I wanted to do was teach, so delighted to go up to Limerick to Mary, and I suppose Mary I then and Mary I know are completely different places. I happened to be there three months ago and it was my first time back in 20, 25 years. You just hadn't been back at the campus and some of the smells are the same and you know it was amazing. It was a real trip down memory lane.

Finbarr Hurley:

But when we were in Mary I, there were actually like 300 in the whole college. There was a hundred and first year, a hundred and second year and a hundred and third year. That was it. When we were in third year the BA started. So I think it increased to something like maybe 450. And it was like, oh my God, there's going to be next 150 around campus next year, and so for the first two years it was a hugely sort of safe space really. Everybody knew everybody. You wouldn't miss a lecture because your parents didn't really get a call home that such and such wasn't in Friday morning, no matter what happened on Thursday night. Was it size of a small secondary school? Really, 100%, when you think of it, 300 in the whole campus. It was crazy. So I loved Mary Ice got involved in everything and I really came out of there and just came into my own. Yeah, everything that was going on. I was there in the middle of it.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Would you say the strong roots that you put down in West Cork allowed you to have wings not to be too corny about it, but allowed you to have wings. Then, when you got that bit of freedom to go up to Limerick and get away from what was what sounds like an ideal childhood, that sense of I belong there, it gives you a freedom, maybe, to really enjoy life beyond that, then Absolutely 100%.

Finbarr Hurley:

I had a really strong upbringing. I suppose my dad would have. You know they work hard, they value hard work. So we all took that and you know that was one of our things have fun but work hard. And I suppose that was what I applied in Mary I and the three years flew, you know, and I suppose I was very, very, very lucky in that when I finished Mary I that summer, I interviewed that June and I had a fixed term position, which was unheard of, for the following September I was back in Cork for that and the joy there was. Most of my friends were, let's say, my school friends were still in UCC for their fourth year. So I was like a student with money in my fourth year. So I was teaching away, I had the money, but yet I was back into the Boone Library every afternoon meeting up with the lads and the gang. I was like, ah, and I had the car and sure it was like pure bliss.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

you know it was a great life.

Finbarr Hurley:

Pure bliss.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

But eventually, Finbarr, you must have kind of settled down and got some bit of sense anyway, because your career progressed rapidly enough. Now you didn't settle down to a quite like teaching third class and fourth class for 10 years on the hop.

Finbarr Hurley:

Yes, I suppose if I, looking back, I would consider myself really privileged and very grateful for, I suppose, the experiences that I've had in that I suppose I had my first eight years in Cork and in that I was in a mixed school in Glenmire. I was in an all girls school at my second fixed term in Passage West. I then went to a girls school that was in a second year and I did three years there and that was a real, I suppose, huge learning curve, because that was in Bandon and Clann was just after starting up the same time. So literally we, the teachers between the two schools, lived together so like we lived and breathed and we had such a ball and you know you were involved in setting up things like you know, picking the uniform that was obviously given to me and you know, designing the crest and all this sort of thing. But it was like you're really involved and I suppose that was my first taste, even though I didn't see it at a time, of leadership and leading out.

Finbarr Hurley:

Then I went back to Cork City and went into a mainstream school in Upper Glenmire. I was there for another three or four years and then I saw the European schools and I suppose, looking back, I suppose I was looking at your law and European studies. Europe always held something for me, so I said, why not bite the bullet and apply for it? So I applied for the European schools and was sent out to firstly just outside of Brussels, to a place called Moll up in Flanders, and it was amazing. It opened my eyes to different European contexts because it was all of the teachers there were from were seconded from their national background. So my carter had the Dutch, the French, the Swedish, you know, and Was it all in English then?

Finbarr Hurley:

So, I thought through English, right, so I thought the curriculum through English. Mark next door thought everything through Dutch and Nika was in the French and she thought everything through French. We had a common curriculum but you were drawing on your own curriculum. So I was inspected from Ireland every single year and we contributed a lot. So let's say Hold on.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Did an inspector get to go out and he junk it to inspect you every year?

Finbarr Hurley:

I wouldn't call it a junk, it no. What coverage?

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Because they had.

Finbarr Hurley:

The 14 European schools are on Europe. They have to inspect and sort of. You know there and there's quite a lot and inspection isn't just a lesson like normally you would have. It would have happened for two or three days on the truck, full time, oh yeah.

Finbarr Hurley:

Every year, every year. Your contract renewal is your two your five. So if you weren't up to scratch, you'd have your two, your five, but you would have an. You would have the Irish inspector would visit every year and then you may have a subject inspection, so like you could have the check. I'll never forget was Mary undergrad. The name will never relieve me. Mary undergrad was the Dutch inspector and she was in charge of she was over SCSE, social and environmental studies, it's what we call it outside, and she was a taskmaster.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

She was tough, you know. So, like Other countries, come to see you, would you? Yeah, like when I.

Finbarr Hurley:

Yeah, as well as your own Irish inspector. I will never forget I suppose I was very lucky Richard Galvin he's from Cork Post primary inspector afterwards, when he came back, was head of school in mall and I got the first smart board in. I would think the whole of Europe. This was on 25 years ago now and it was a huge, big deal. So from where here it is, and like design a classroom for the future at the time. So, like I was, I just did a sort of real cool console on my desk and we had sort of iPad not iPads they were, I don't know what they were called at the time and I was teaching third, fourth, fifth, I had a mixed class and I don't know 26 of them. I will never forget.

Finbarr Hurley:

There was one day Lila was my principal at the time. She comes running down the corridor and Lila was a big lady and she was there, finbar, out of breath. Finbar, finbar, they're coming over. I said who's coming over? She has this 80 heads, delegation and inspectors coming over to see your class. I said I can't fit 80 people into this room with, like I already have, my 27 kids. How am I going to finish? So they spent the day coming in and groups of four or five observing and watching what we were doing. But, like, it put me on my toes with regard to my pedagogical approaches and, while we were, with regard to bed magic, but experiences that were just amazing.

Finbarr Hurley:

So then I moved up to Brussels where we started a school, a school Brussels four opened and it started with 60 kids, maybe 10 teachers, so I was brought in a year or two and I was there for five years and when I was leaving we were up to 1400 kids. So we grew from 60 to 1400 in five years. So you can imagine practices, protocols, everything needed to change year on year, on year, exponentially, and I was started there leading SCSE. So my AP position there was SC or social, environmental, and I had Maria and the graph to deal with, which was pleasure.

Finbarr Hurley:

But, and again at my, my head, there was Viva and Viva was from Lithuania and Viva was very much an administrator, so she was hands off. So like sub needs lead. So I was the one who was meeting the inspector, not her, and putting out a rationale and everything like that and going through everything with her and as well as in my second year there, I was appointed primary coordinator across all sections. So we had eight language sections. So my role was to sort of bring the pedagogy together to make our sure there were commonalities with regards to what we were trying to achieve and there were scope and sequence of curriculum. And I was teaching half time there and I'd have to admit so it was a nice balance. You know, at an AP one position, it was really, really good.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's great, your first real taste of serious leadership. Then that's it absolutely.

Finbarr Hurley:

And then you went to Carlyle, my contract then. So that was a secondment for 10 years. I got a 10th year out of it. The department was saying okay, you know to come back, and there was sort of an option to take a one year career break if you wanted. So I took that.

Finbarr Hurley:

I just happened to be in London my last year in Brussels for a weekend in January and just happened to meet an education scout who was out looking for teachers and people to go to the Middle East and just had a coffee with them and he said look, I have these opportunities here if you're interested. So I happened to say, look, what's the point to go back to Cork when I go to the Middle East for years? So I actually tore off to Qatar, doha, so there my mother was expecting me home in June. So in January she's already, he's coming home in June. I literally delight, hold all the neighbors, hold all the relatives, and next thing she gets the call ma'am, not quite yet, I'm heading to Qatar. She's like what you know, you're already in Brussels. Now you're heading further afield, and actually it was 11, 12 years ago now.

Finbarr Hurley:

So headed off to Qatar for a year, brilliant year, because new leadership team in the school. Coming from all over my head was Canadian. I was put into what's called Block F, so I was an admin deputy principal at 600 boys and girls in Block F from third, fourth and fifth class and they were challenging when we went in, but the team that we built was phenomenal. I suppose it really sort of hit home to me the importance of team and how we dependent on each other and seeing each other's strengths. So I suppose my leadership sort of capacity and skills are building up and knowledge is going along.

Finbarr Hurley:

We met every morning. We started school at 6.45. So we met at six every morning. Staff for 30 minutes. Oh fab, we finished. People could leave the campus at four, like your kids might leave at half to be jet, stay on for an hour and a half. Wednesdays, tuesdays and Thursdays to Thursday was their Friday. We would finish that bit earlier, we'd finish at 12. But on Fridays, even though the kids left at 12, we had professional learning every Friday. So we then as role, in our role as leaders, had to develop the right. Sorry, every second Friday we had to develop the professional learning for the three and a half hours that the teachers would engage in on the Friday, the first evening, so that was really really good.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

If you start at 6 and finish at 4, it's akin to starting at 9 and finishing at 7 every day.

Finbarr Hurley:

The kids went home earlier. So we started at 6, but the kids didn't come until they left at 2 to 30. But we were still on campus. But when you went home your work was done. You didn't bring your work home with you. When you left you walked out with your hands and saying you've got all your planning done, you have all your corrections done, you had all your collaborative work done and there were different days for different things. So let's say, every second Friday was professional learning day, there was days for collaboratives, there was days for individual planning, there was days for team planning.

Finbarr Hurley:

So, like experience, yeah, so that was one year and it was halfway through that year the Principalship of Karlsruhe came up in Germany again back at the European schools. So I put my application into Dublin and was called to interview because Ireland had the opportunity to put forward two nominees. So four countries around Europe were nominated to put forward candidates. Then I interviewed for Karlsruhe in Dublin, was put forward to Brussels, interviewed Brussels and I got that role. So I went to Karlsruhe in Germany then where I was head of kindergarten and primary, so from three to maybe 11. I suppose I knew the system. So I went to Karlsruhe and it was my big aim here was to develop team and, you know, to empower team. So it was my first real, proper principal role and I suppose, look, it was a very privileged role because there was a finance department. I didn't have to worry about money, I had to budget what I wanted pedagogically.

Finbarr Hurley:

I'll never forget there was one year we decided we always had a pedagogical week, normally around February, and we said, look, we get the circus. So we actually got a full big top circus in. I mean, we spent a Sunday putting up the big top and we had all of the activities all week, every single lesson, every single activity played into this scene, a real circus in the school and the kids we performed on the following Saturday I had like kids I'll never forget, one of my autistic kids was up one meter 50 walking the tightrope and blowing fire, like you wouldn't get away with hearing health and safety. But I never forget when I was planning, I was putting my budget together, I said, okay, I'm budgeting for the circus. I raised our eight legs and where is he going with this?

Finbarr Hurley:

But it was the best week, like all of our activities, all our language activities, all our mats, everything was all based around circus. And then they had the practical element of, you know, learning about all of the different skills in the circus juggling, blowing fire. So the kids had a choice and what, what they wanted to obviously be afraid of heights. You're not going to go up and think so I was. Then I had my top hat on and I was like master German ease. But it was the most amazing. We put shows on on the Saturday morning, saturday afternoon and Sunday and the atmosphere it just pulled because again you see so many different language sections. You're trying to bring commonality and trying to bring everyone together and it was fantastic.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So now that we've got your teachers listening to this, say it was a bloody circus in our place every week. Would you like to be on?

Finbarr Hurley:

circus. Listen, I had that too, like I'll never forget staff meetings, like because you had to work through the three languages. You had to have to 100% and you know, and working knowledge of the sort, my German when I went there wasn't great. So I would have my first staff meetings, the power bite would be in German and I would be presenting in English and French and conversations in the groups could be in any of which of maybe 15, 16 different languages. So I suppose I realized they're the importance of communication and how to communicate and to keep communication succinct. You know like it was pointless when I started. I would send the old reams in an email. Sure was getting over. So I said, okay, convert, cut this back two or three bullet points. What is the most pertinent things that they need to know? So staff meetings are very interesting, but again, you're also dealing with cultural backgrounds I will never forget, and even dealing with parents.

Finbarr Hurley:

Like you know, we would have rainy, drizzly days and we'd be calling will we send them? We keep them inside, will we send them out? You'd have the German mothers calling saying why is my child in today? You know that's. You know you can dress for the weather. Put on their coats? There's not. This is not going to kill them. And the Italian mothers are raising oh my God, my bambini is out, like how can you send them out? Will we send them out? Will we not send them out? But you know you're going to get an onslaught. No matter what, you're never going to be right in your decision anyway. So I suppose that was another leadership. Learning was to know what like to what you think is best for the kids. You got to go what you got and be able to defend it to the two warring factions of Italians and German mothers and recurring see what they need.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

You know you're hearing used to say about decisions If you're not annoying some people, it's probably not worth doing. Come here anyway.

Finbarr Hurley:

you made your way back to Ireland, I made my way back to Cork. I suppose what was lovely about coming back to Cork was I made so many mistakes first time around and I still did second time around. I'm still making, but you know, I suppose you learn from them and you grow from each one of them. So come back to Cork, come back to Douglas. That was very interesting because I was definitely the outside force. You know, they say an external appointment, like I wasn't even in the country. It was actually there's. There's another pinbar hurley, who's principal in Cork as well. So pinbar was actually getting so many calls and congratulations. You know I'm not moving from where I am, you know. So there wasn't even the other pinbar hurley wasn't even on the radar.

Finbarr Hurley:

So when I arrived in, I suppose it was the case of like, who's your man, where is he coming from now, and it was all that was all about. I suppose I learned there is building relationships and putting the relationships first, and I suppose we worked at an incredible rate and speed and I had to temper that. Like I never forget. I said look, lads, we'll go with baby steps now and we'll take things easy. And after around three months one teacher came up to me, said like and Mark, your baby steps are crazy giant steps, you know. And it was a case of, okay, need to camp things down, slow things down. So came to Douglas and took on a building project. So our school would have been around since the 60s and was not in really good condition. It wasn't the condition, wasn't the greatest condition to be working, and so we actually demolished the school and put up a brand new building on the campus.

Finbarr Hurley:

As we work there, you know, with our four boys for the two years, you know, and then sort of thinking, okay, I suppose I've had a lot of experience, I'd like to maybe look at system and working with system level. Actually, pdst leadership came up one year at the time and I was looking to say, okay, I think I'd be interested in this. And I said to Dan, deputy Principal at the moment in the schools of Dan, do you think you're ready to sort of step up and take things that he said she's not yet, not there yet. So it's okay, no, bother. Following year, csl came up and I said, okay, this is definitely my colleague. I suppose CSL had come on my radar when I was in Germany because I saw it setting up. Oh, that's an interesting concept. So, dan, that you said I'm ready, go for it, see if you get it so applied. And CSL, which was a huge journey because I suppose I learned about post primary there and learned about system and how it worked, and now I'm with IJA and I'm primary coordinator with IJA.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's, I suppose, my journey is a very interesting journey, tons of experience. So just to go back to the CSL thing so the CSL was actually where I would have seen you first. So I was a principal in Dublin and saw this Finbar. Harley fell arrived and of course everybody's listening to this now, but so many people have seen you Finbar. You're not going to miss Finbar in a room. You have a real interest in fashion. Where did that come from?

Finbarr Hurley:

I actually don't. I think it's always been there like, yeah, you'd notice, you'd see me, you know. Like I suppose I was even on my car. Yesterday I was in a place someone walked to sit that has to be your car outside like, but I, my mother, would go back and say, like I was, I'd been enjoying this when I was two and a half and my aunt came down from Donegal With an iron sweater and I sat up in the bed. Oh, my god, you know. So I think it's, it must have been from there. But, like my grandmother would have been a very glamorous lady, you know, and ma'am ma'am Is, you know, ma'am looks fantastic and for a rage, and she, you know, she always looks well.

Finbarr Hurley:

So I suppose I've always had an interest in color. Color is my thing. I really love color and texture and I suppose, yeah, look, I go, I look back and there's been some horrific fashion choices. But, like you know, you're supposed to experiment and for me it's it's part. I suppose it is part of who I am at this stage. So I get up in the morning and say, okay, yeah, this is what you feel like today, just go with it, and I'm not afraid to try things. I'm not afraid of color, I suppose, is the big thing and I will. I think I've been possibly known for color and for, you know, texture and whatever.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

So it's your signature thing, I suppose, and people said that's flamboyant, that's who does. Do you ever think maybe does it take from the message sometimes that people to just look in a, the color and the, the only one, that unusual but you know they're not usual clothes and do you think maybe people kind of get hooked up on that they don't hear what you're saying because you've an awful lot of really solid, brilliant stuff to say. You have a huge experience, we've gone through there. So do you think maybe it gets in the way? I don't think so.

Finbarr Hurley:

I think it possibly adds to it because, you know, I think like, if we think of ourselves as learners, you know, a lot of it is visual, a lot of it is it's the whole package, you know, and I think I would be quite expressive as well with my hands when I'm talking and speaking. So I think it's the whole thing. I think people see me first and it's a sort of fascination Okay, who's your man, what's he about like? And then I start talking and I think I hook people in and people start engaging, because it's not just the look, it's the hands are going. I cannot stand in one place like I get cold sweats. When there's a podium and there's a microphone, I literally get cold sweats because I can't stand in one place. So I would love one of these Madonna roving mics, you know.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

That's how I.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I think I need to get one for myself and just bring it with me, because I'm more comfortable moving around as opposed to just being stagnant in one place an important message to school leaders and I think particularly of school leaders, I mean teachers too that the jobs, the job which you always have to leave room for yourselves, because if the job becomes you, there's no sustainability. In that it leads you up If you always make space for who you are, regardless of the job and the all the bits and pieces and the wonderful of the tough teams there is in school leadership. Always make space for who you are, because otherwise it leads you up.

Finbarr Hurley:

It's not a message Maybe look, I suppose my message the kids in school. You know I go in and, uh, the junior interest pieces are your handsome, you look great, like you're lovely sir.

Finbarr Hurley:

And then you go out the yard, the six class lads will end up and like they'd look, they start with the shoes and they look down and look up on sassara or daylight, like whatever. And the lads, will you do me one thing? Will you look me in the eye, say good morning and then look down. You know, don't start looking down at the shoes and look it up. But you're right, I think Our profession is very unique in that it is an emotional connection. Is what you're doing? That's, that's the basis of everything. It's the relational.

Finbarr Hurley:

Whether you're in school leadership, whether you're a teacher in a classroom or an s&a in a classroom, it's all about the quality of the relationships that you have. And, like you, look back, I'm 30 years of the role and we were in thawne's to recently. And One girl comes up to me and she says mr Hurley, and they're oh my god, I said her name. Like I said, it's time now for me to move on. If, if my, if my junior infants are now at deputy principal level, it's time to start to move on.

Finbarr Hurley:

But she said, you know, what I remember most is and it's always the same it's how you made them. But they don't remember the maths lesson, they don't remember the the science lesson. What they remember is how you made them feel. It's the quality of the relationships. And I think if you're trying to build a relationship, you've got to be authentic, you've got to be you. You know and you have to bring yourself to it. If you're hiding yourself or you're, you can't be yourself. That's a blockage to a relationship. You know and the kids feel it, and I think I suppose my message to the lads in school, the lads just be yourselves, be yourself, just be yourself.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

And I think I don't think that actually the children are born with great intuition and when they're in junior infants they know if you're spoofing. And actually I think as adults we can lose a little bit that. But I've always been amazed by how Children can actually see through you Very quickly. I remember a small kid said to me once in relation to a particular adult, without giving away anything, and everybody thinks you know that person is, the bane is not to know. I was a small, it like a senior infancy back to me and he was bang on the money. You know it always stuck with being quite intuitive and kids just, I think, just sense it and you know yourself from bar, from going in now to schools. You sense it when you go into school where the school is happy, where they, you know the care for the children in there and uh, yeah, kids get that, kids get that.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

I'm looking down here at questions I had had down to ask and the chat has been so good I haven't Got. I haven't got to ask hardly any of them. We're just a couple of quickfire ones right before, before we go, because I'm conscious of the time. What does a teacher need most?

Finbarr Hurley:

What does a teacher need most? Self-belief.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Hmm.

Finbarr Hurley:

I think, look, we have amazing teachers in our country, right? So much so we can hardly keep them in the country. This is a small problem which is a number one worldwide, you know, and the commitment, their passion is completely recognized, but I don't think we see it in ourselves. I think maybe that's when we're go away, that's one of the advantages. But I suppose Seeing after seeing teachers abroad and coming home, there's a huge humility amongst our teachers. But I think what they need is self-belief, like if I look at the primary current framework and to the guidance on the prep for teaching, learning Like this is affording teachers to be a genetic, to have agency in their own work right. But if they don't believe in themselves that you know that I can put a modular work together myself, that I can trust myself to put this together, you know, and it's going to be good, it's going to be difficult to sort of sort of move and to work with the curriculum framework and with our Learning outcomes that are, you know that, that we're moving towards and or that say, you know, if you look at all the competencies, it's that, it's that whole area of just Self-belief and you know you can, you have it within you. You know you can actually put together a modular work yourself. You don't need to be depending on this company or that company for the textbooks.

Finbarr Hurley:

I think think about what you want, think about your own context, think about your need and believe in yourself. You know, and don't be afraid like there's a huge fear of oh, but you know my notes might be a scratch, or you know there's might be someone coming in to sort of observe and I can't, you know, sort of figure out why or explain myself to it. And there, if you know what you want to teach, you know your class, you know what you want to teach, you know how you want to put it together. You can stand over it. You know If you, if you know exactly where you're going. But it's that self-belief. I think that's the things that they need most.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, absolutely couldn't agree with you more. As part of the podcast fimbar, we ask other guests to give us a question, so an anonymous question, and the question we have here is where will traditional education factors such as reading, writing and maths fit in this emerging world? There's AI and there's like we've left, nearly ICT. We're moving into AI. Where will reading, writing, arithmetic, land and all that?

Finbarr Hurley:

I think there's always going to be a place for it. I think there has to be a place for it. I don't think we have a choice. I think it has to be for always, because, okay, we're moving into the world of AI but, like, behind AI, there has to be human input. You have to be able to critically analyze what AI is producing for you. I know there's a huge GDP, etc. Etc is huge at the moment, but you have to be able to critically analyze what's going on. You have to be able to sort of write or verbalize what you're putting in there. But I think the basic skills will always remain because, like they're transdisciplinary, you need them across everything. So I do think there is a huge place. I think they have to be central to whatever we do going forward.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

The last, but not least question is where or when or what brings you most joy and peace? When's Finbarr Hurley at his happiest?

Finbarr Hurley:

I'm working. I have an issue. I absolutely I would consider myself, I think, a bit of a work alcoholic in that I suppose. Look, if I look at my life, I've put career first all the way through in the last 30 years, no matter what else, like, obviously, family is always really important. I'm really really good close circular friends but, like, career is where I've put up all my energies because I love what I do. You know, I absolutely love it.

Finbarr Hurley:

I suppose that brings me joy, that brings me happiness to see that hopefully I'm making a contribution. Is there anything else that'll bring me joy? Absolutely, sitting in the South of Spain with a coffee in the morning, like looking with a blue sky outside, that brings me joy as well. But I suppose, in general terms, in a day to day basis, you know, like I enjoy the simple things in life but I love what I do and I get such a kick out of it. You know that that actually, I would think, brings me joy. As I said, I have very good friends. They're spread out. There's a few in Cork, a few in the UK, a few in Europe, and I suppose when we get together that's pure joy. But I suppose in the day to day. What brings me joy is what I do.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Yeah, that sense of contentment.

Finbarr Hurley:

Absolutely I like. There are days, obviously, where you're pulling your hair out and frustrated and stress levels could be high because there's deadlines to meet, et cetera, but on the whole, can I say it brings me joy. Absolutely. I don't think I'd stay. I would have stayed in it for the past 30 years if it didn't Like I'm very much like feed yourself. You know I would have moved schools a lot, as you see, in the past 30 years I would have had a lot of experiences because I needed that challenge, that something different. But it's still always been in the realm of education and teaching and I suppose, from a far back as I can remember, all I wanted to do was be a teacher. So I suppose I'm living my dream, living the dream.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Well, Finbarr Hurley, go raibh mile maith agat, that was absolutely fantastic. Great to have the chat with you. I've seen you and heard you a lot and so many people have so many good things to say about you. Finbarr, you are making a difference and you're working very, very hard. So, , go raibh mile, it's awesome. Go raibh mile.

Ultan Mac Mathúna:

Tune in next week for another episode of Teachers Themselves and if you're enjoying this season, go back and find episodes from season one all around CPD. Don't forget to hit that bell, like and subscribe, leave us a review and share it with colleagues and friends. We want to hear from you. Your feedback informs the show, so look out for the episode, questions and polls. You can follow us across our social media channels Instagram, twitter, linkedin, facebook. The links are in the show notes. If you have any thoughts on today's episode or suggestions for future topics, email Zita here at zrobinson@dwec. ie. Zita is at . Oh, and, as always, don't forget to book your CPD. Go to our website, dwec. ie. That's dwec. ie Have a great week. Slán Tamaill .

Finbarr Hurley:

Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Ultan Mac Mathúna

Host